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To think there should be sanctions for criminals who refuse to disclose what they have done with a victims body?

(62 Posts)
LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 11:19:14

I've recently watched the programme about April Jones and her poor mother explaining how she may have to accept that she will never know what happened to her daughter.

Couldn't more be done to put pressure on killers to compel them to say where a body is? It is just absolutely unthinkable that an innocent victim should be denied a burial and their families denied closure on top of everything else they have been through.

I know this isn't straightforward since these people are liars. I just feel it's terrible that people who have committed heinous crimes can continue to exact torture on their victims from their prison cell.

TheSparrowhawk Wed 21-Jun-17 11:21:06

There are indirect sanctions. Not revealing the location of the body indicates a lack of remorse which is taken into account in sentencing.

I agree it's unforgivably cruel.

threesocksmorgan Wed 21-Jun-17 11:21:31

yanbu in thinking its terrible..BUT what sanctions can you give them? how can you force them?

JoshLymanJr Wed 21-Jun-17 11:23:01

Like what? He has already been given a whole life tariff.

Cocklodger Wed 21-Jun-17 11:24:42

There isn't much anyone can do although it is taken into account when sentencing

LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 11:27:10

I think solitary confinement. I imagine this is not possible due to human rights legislation. But certainly the removal of anything 'enjoyable' it wouldn't be simple I know.

Of course in the case of psychopaths like Ian Brady he continued to use publicity about the issue to feed (I presume) his narcissistic need for supply.

I'm usually a very left leaning person but this is an issue I feel strongly about.

TeaStory Wed 21-Jun-17 11:28:37

That's "Helen's Law" and is currently making it way through parliament: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37606842

There is a petition here: www.change.org/p/rt-hon-theresa-may-mp-introduce-helen-s-law?source_location=minibar

HildaOg Wed 21-Jun-17 11:53:16

I agree with you. I'd feed them watery porridge and bread only and keep them in solitary with one book on how to be a decent person until they spill everything. People like this will do what's in their own interests. They don't care about those they hurt but they do care for their own comfort.

lionsleepstonight Wed 21-Jun-17 12:45:46

I've signed the petition.

LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 13:28:21

Thank you for the link - I've signed it too.

LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 13:29:10

'People like this will do what's in their own interests. They don't care about those they hurt but they do care for their own comfort.'

Yes, I do agree with you Hilda.

Ratbagcatbag Wed 21-Jun-17 13:32:39

I'm not actually a violent person generally but I'm sure I'd turn a blind eye to waterboarding daily in some cases such as this. angry

LittleBooInABox Wed 21-Jun-17 13:32:40

Ian Brady was kept alive when he didn't want to be, and kept locked up for the rest of his days. What other sanctions could be given?

It's often about control. That's the last bit they have.

JoshLymanJr Wed 21-Jun-17 13:33:11

That's "Helen's Law" and is currently making it way through parliament

In my ignorance I would have assumed that not revealing whereabouts of a body would have been automatic grounds to deny parole already.

Pinkheart5912 Wed 21-Jun-17 13:39:03

What sanctions can you give someone already spending years in prison?

People that won't say where the body is are imo just sick and rotten all the way through, so i don't think saying no tv or bread & water only forever is going to make them say tbh.

People that won't say don't think like you & me about what it does to the family etc, they see power and enjoyment of not telling

LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 13:43:51

Yes I do agree. Someone with that level of psychopathy is certainly not going to conform to the same behaviour as 'most' people.

But if you take away things like TV. No letters, no phone calls, no visitors. I really don't know much about how prisons are run. I do think that surely something could be done though. Or even an attempt.

LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 13:48:26

I do wonder in the case of Mark Bridger how he went undetected for so many years. I wonder whether he was responsible for other unsolved crimes? Apparently without the advances in forensics it would not have been possible to prove he killed April.

ClashCityRocker Wed 21-Jun-17 13:52:46

I suppose once they have nothing they also have nothing to lose - so why not attack any prison officer who comes near them, self harm (which would need treatment and mental health intervention) etc.... It would make controlling the prisoner on a day to day basis very problematic and could put guards at risk. I read that this is why isolation is generally only used for short periods.

I do agree with the sentiment though.

Haliez13 Wed 21-Jun-17 13:59:26

I remember reading a really sad story about a guy who was unjustly convicted of murder. He was kept in prison for longer than he would have been because he was viewed as 'showing no remorse' by not admitting guilt (as he'd done nothing) and not saying where the body was (because he didn't know).

I would worry about cases such as his.

Also, there have been lots of studies which show that long term solitary confinement is incredibly damaging, psychologically, and is pretty much torture. I get that there are people in prison that have done horrible things, but I hate the idea of us, as a society, deciding that means we're OK with torture. What the hell does it say about us? We also already have a far higher prison population than most European countries, with far harsher conditions, and what that has got us is a higher crime rate and higher rate of re-offending.

As a country, we're not being too kind to prisoners.

SuperBeagle Wed 21-Jun-17 14:02:36

A state in Aus has just introduced laws which state that if a convicted murderer refuses to disclose the location of remains, they forfeit the possibility of parole.

I agree with it in emotive terms but not in practical terms. There's the possibility that a person has been wrongfully convicted thereby not knowing where the body is. It's a slippery slope.

Haliez13 Wed 21-Jun-17 14:24:29

SuperBeagle - exactly. We'd be bringing in laws which basically mean if you are unjustly convicted of murder, you're punished more harshly, and effectively end up with life without parole.

MissHavishamsleftdaffodil Wed 21-Jun-17 14:30:02

Agree OP. There are privileges in prison which could be with held, I know that makes long term prisoners more difficult to barrack but that's not insurmountable.

I'd add the Soham wretch to this too. His ridiculous story telling and dramatic fits mean no one will ever really know what he did to those girls. (In both cases no doubt that the men were culpable.)

VestalVirgin Wed 21-Jun-17 14:31:04

An eye for an eye, he should be told that he'll be burnt and his ashes buried in an unmarked grave.
It would work in those cases where the murderer is a narcissist and wants to be famous; which apparently is not unusual.

Forfeiting parole should be a matter of course, if he doesn't tell anyone what he did to the victim, he clearly doesn't regret it.

I remember reading a really sad story about a guy who was unjustly convicted of murder. He was kept in prison for longer than he would have been because he was viewed as 'showing no remorse' by not admitting guilt (as he'd done nothing) and not saying where the body was (because he didn't know).I would worry about cases such as his.

Yeah, well, such things happen, which is why am against punishing them with solitary confinement, et cetera.
But when it comes to duration of imprisonment, we have to treat those who are imprisoned as guilty.

Mistakes should, ideally, not happen at all, and probably most cases where an innnocent person is imprisoned would be avoidable nowadays if people worked properly.

What about extra punishment for bragging about the crime? That'd not harm any innocents.

LottieandMia Wed 21-Jun-17 15:17:08

'I get that there are people in prison that have done horrible things, but I hate the idea of us, as a society, deciding that means we're OK with torture'

^^ yes. I do completely agree. There is certainly a wider issue of the fact this is not just about the convicted but our society as a whole. And I am definitely not at all in favour of the death penalty in any situation.

OliviaStabler Wed 21-Jun-17 15:43:41

It's often about control. That's the last bit they have.

This ^^

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