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Scam: AIBU to think we should not be fully liable?

(64 Posts)
whatajobbeingsamumis30 Tue 30-May-17 09:35:19

So this is super crap but basically we had a scam done on us, we used a roofing company and received an copy of an invoice previously received detailing different bank details (it was from an email slightly different company.com v companyltd.com) - we had a dialogue by email and then we paid. It came to light a few weeks later. This is for a few thousands pounds. The roofing company says we still owe them the money which I understand however this scam happened to another of their clients who picked up on it and didn't pay - should they not have warned us their network was now at risk? The police have said they will not investigate (why do I pay taxes?!?) and the bank we paid are taking no responsibly (surely they know who is the scammer). AIBU to think that we should not pay full balance to roofing company? It is because there system was not secure that this has happened?

ShotsFired Tue 30-May-17 09:50:15

How do you know it wasn't your email system that was insecure?

This is quote a common scam unfortunately, quite often for solicitors who are dealing with house purchases. The baddies intercept the emails and follow up with a convincing-looking email. Buyer then transfers across deposits and similar big sums, and... sad

At the end of the day, you do still owe the roofers the money. Shit happens and life isn't fair, but that is the fact of it.

You say that you got an invoice with different bank details but you didn't actually phone the roofer up to ask why - you just sent emails back about it? What did you expect them to say "oh yeah sorry caught us out, we're scamming you".

mycavitiesareempty Tue 30-May-17 09:54:03

If this happened to another of their clients I would be strongly suspecting it was an inside job on the part of the roofing company ...

DJBaggySmalls Tue 30-May-17 09:55:36

Try Trading Standards asap.

Cheby Tue 30-May-17 09:56:29

Why won't the police investigate?

LIZS Tue 30-May-17 09:56:43

I'm sure I saw something similar recently on Watchdog or Rip Off Britain. You need to contact your bank fraud department and report to Police/Action Fraud to try to retrieve your money but in the meantime you still owe the builder, it isn't their fault it has gone astray.

SandyDenny Tue 30-May-17 09:59:54

It's not going to be the op's email that was compromised if another customer of the roofer also had a fake email.

Unfortunately this is becoming a common scam and maybe all the perfect people out there would notice the slightly different email address and would phone up to check the new bank details but the scam works because most normal people don't operate like that.

Did the roofing company know about the hack before you got your fake email? If they did then at least morally they should have told you.

I wouldn't accept the police not being interested, this is a crime. Have you tagged action fraud?

Sadly you probably won't get your money back, it's a crap situation for you.

MagentaRocks Tue 30-May-17 10:05:47

Internet fraud is not reported to your local police. You need to report it to action fraud who will, if there is a line of enquiry forward the report to your local police for them to investigate.

You still owe your roofer. I don't know what good trading standards would be. It's not the roofer that there is a problem with.

Albadross Tue 30-May-17 10:08:03

If you pay the wrong person you can request the money back - someone paid me by mistake and I had to give it back. The bank should be able to trace it so keep pushing them to. Most accounts come with T&Cs that cover fraudulent activity so I'd question it.

SandyDenny Tue 30-May-17 10:12:11

If only that was true Albadros but sadly thieves don't leave the money lying around in the account waiting for you to ask for it back.

It's my understanding that a bank can ask you to repay money sent to you by mistake but they can't force you to. Criminals are making millions by a getting unsuspecting people to pay money to the wrong account

mycavitiesareempty Tue 30-May-17 10:12:23

Honestly how do you know the roofer isn't bent?? It's not generally the most, erm, salubrious of industries.

lanouvelleheloise Tue 30-May-17 10:14:14

Oh god, how awful for you. I think anyone could fall for this on a bad, stressful day - the people who do this are very convincing scumbags.

Agree with other people about not letting this rest.

SandyDenny Tue 30-May-17 10:16:56

It's quite long but MSE has some good advice here if you pay the wrong person by mistake. It won't apply to you as I don't think it's classed as a mistake if you pay who you meant to pay even if that person is the criminal

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/send-money-wrong-account

ShotsFired Tue 30-May-17 10:23:29

@SandyDenny Unfortunately this is becoming a common scam and maybe all the perfect people out there would notice the slightly different email address and would phone up to check the new bank details but the scam works because most normal people don't operate like that.

I assume your "perfect people" jibe was aimed at me?

The thing is (as you say yourself) this IS becoming a very common scam, so yes, I would expect a lot of people to ring up and check if they suddenly got notified of a change in bank details. That sort of thing would also cause me to look closer at the sender details too.

Did the roofing company know about the hack before you got your fake email? If they did then at least morally they should have told you.
Yes 100% agree and apologies for not spotting that in OP.

Somerford Tue 30-May-17 10:28:38

I'm not sure where you stand legally but morally and ethically, the roofing company should have treated the previous breach of their systems more seriously and taken steps to prevent a repeat. This kind of thing ought to be covered by a Cyber Crime insurance policy (I think fake invoices accompanied by a dialogue of sorts would be classed as a "Fake President" type situation) but I get the sense that the roofing company won't have insured against this.

In any case, I would certainly have the discussion with them and ask them why they haven't resolved this issue after their previous breach OR offered any warning to their other clients. If you are feeling particularly bold, maybe withhold payment until they offer some kind of argument as to why they shouldn't be liable given that they were aware of a previous breach and haven't done anything about it. I would advise you to seek proper legal advice first before you make a decision on payment either way though.

Therealslimshady1 Tue 30-May-17 10:31:44

Yes, fraud department of your bank

I have been scammed and got money back

SolomanDaisy Tue 30-May-17 10:33:32

You spent weeks going to and fro discussing the fake invoice? Was this with the scammer? And during that time you didn't receive a real invoice? If so, I'd be amazed if it wasn't the roofing company who sent the 'fake' invoice.

Allthewaves Tue 30-May-17 10:34:21

Pay your roofer

hibbledobble Tue 30-May-17 10:38:08

This is indeed a common scam.

It is no more the roofer fault than yours. Ask your bank about getting the money back.

Talk to the roofers about a payment plan if you can't afford to pay the whole amount at present.

Slarti Tue 30-May-17 10:39:01

Agreed Solomon

I'd be quite suspicious of the roofer.

Whosthemummynow Tue 30-May-17 10:49:01

Honestly how do you know the roofer isn't bent?? It's not generally the most, erm, salubrious of industries

People actually think like this?? Cunts

thenightsky Tue 30-May-17 10:53:42

A local hospital Trust lost over a million quid to a scam like this when a new unit was being built.

Dulcimena Tue 30-May-17 10:56:47

I agree with PPs, it sounds like an inside job.

Bluntness100 Tue 30-May-17 11:04:52

You have to pay the roofer. The fact you were scammed is separate to what you owe for work done. You have not paid it and you are legally required to pay.

You then have a seperwte issue which is did they in some way put you at risk and as such have some liability, and that's subject for a court case and investigation. It's doubtful they did but more importantly it's on you to check uou are paying the correct party.

I'm sorry to say this is quite a common scam and has appeared in the media often. As you voluntarily gave the money without due dilligence I suspect you may not get it back. That's what happened in the other cases. One couple it was a house purchase and the scammer said they were their solicitor and no they didn't get the money back.

Proactively giving someone money is very different to someone hacking your account and taking it. As said though it's a totally seperare issue to the fact you owe the roofers and need to pay or you could end up in a worse position.

hibbledobble Tue 30-May-17 11:06:26

Saying it is an inside job without evidence is pure speculation.

Roofers earn well, and as any tradesmen, rely on their reputation and word of mouth for a lot of their work. They would be incredibly stupid to do this.

I think most people don't realise how insecure emails are. They are like postcards, any number of people can see them.

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