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One rule for the privileged posh and another for the plebs (Oxford student who stabbed boyfriend)

(87 Posts)
VladmirsPoutine Fri 19-May-17 14:37:19

I went to Oxbridge but this story still rankles me. A med student at Oxford gets out of sentencing (for now) because she has a promising career ahead of her. What she did to her ex constitutes as a crime. But lo and behold the judge found at least for now in her favour.

Had this been some of the girls and boys I grew up with no shadow of a doubt they'd now be in custody.

www.itv.com/news/2017-05-17/oxford-student-who-stabbed-boyfriend-could-avoid-jail/

PansyGiraffe Fri 19-May-17 14:40:54

Worth reading this. thesecretbarrister.com/2017/05/16/an-oxford-medical-student-stabbed-her-boyfriend-with-a-bread-knife-so-why-is-she-not-going-to-prison/

ifyoulikepinacolada Fri 19-May-17 14:45:52

We've had this thread before.

The judge hasn't found in her favour, not least because that's not his job. She pleaded guilty and will be sentenced. The delay between the court case and the sentencing is to see if she is able to be rehabilitated and the sentencing will reflect that. It fits more than comfortably within established guidelines - our justice system is designed to be rehabilitative.

Radio 4 happily admitted on Wednesday that they had jumped on the story as it's the kind of thing that gets people talking and that the Oxbridge angle has been hugely distorted by the press. Lavinia Woodward is an abuse survivor and drug addict as well as aspiring doctor. If there is any inclination that her recovery is not going well or that she is likely to reoffend, that will be taken into account in four months time.

specialsubject Fri 19-May-17 14:53:56

Isn't it a shame when the facts get in the way of a good story?

Ask for evidence.

worridmum Fri 19-May-17 14:55:03

If it was a male commiting the crime and the victim was female there would be zero chance from him to avoid jail

Even worse if she was not a white rich girl she would be left out to dry with a hefty prison sentence not a chance of avoiding jail.

There is no excuse for stabbing her boyfriend does not matter if she was abused in another relantionship could you imagine the outcry if a male was abused / drug addict punched and stabbed his girlfriend would he be likely to get off?

HeyCat Fri 19-May-17 14:56:03

Story is only being reported because she's at Oxford. Judge is following totally normal procedure and if this was one of the boys and girls you grew up with, the exact same would be happening. It just wouldn't be reported.

milliemolliemou Fri 19-May-17 15:02:15

@worridmum Click on the link Pansy posted.

worridmum Fri 19-May-17 15:13:00

reading the second link my point still stands does not matter how talented she is would you be campaing for a bloke who stabbed his girlfriend not serve time for the crime? I serously doubt he would not serve time.

No matter the abuse / her life events should have little bearing on the crime, we dont let rapist / child offenders off jsut because they were abused as children or recovering addicts.

You do the crime you do the time if that means her career path is ruined it is her own fault.

I know men that have lost their careers for slapping their partners (servred time for domestic violance) even when it was their first offence why should someone who STABBED some not get a jail sentence when people do get sent down for punching or slappign some

PamplemousseRouge Fri 19-May-17 15:15:46

I'm just wondering (this is a genuine question) - where does it say in the articles published so far that she's rich/privileged?

It's been mentioned that she went to Oxford/is currently at Oxford and that her mother lives in Italy. I don't know how that makes her particularly rich or privileged though.

I have to admit that I was frustrated when I heard that she may be treated more leniently because the judge felt that she extremely able/bright etc.

Kokusai Fri 19-May-17 15:16:31

I know men that have lost their careers for slapping their partners (servred time for domestic violance) even when it was their first offence

You know multiple men that have spaped their partners once only, and served time in jail?

I call bullshit.

PossomInAPearTree Fri 19-May-17 15:23:31

I always thought that when a female committed a violent crime she's actually statistically more likely to be jailed than a man who commits a comparable crime. Something to do with the patriarchal society/justice system which is horrified when a woman commits a violent crime but sees it as more normal behaviour for a man. But a violent woman must be a total deviant. Or so I was taught at uni.

worridmum Fri 19-May-17 15:29:54

I meant they were only charged with one offence they only slapped / punched there partner one time (aka they might of hit more in that offence not just for 1 slap or 1 punch) not that they were personally my friends

But lets not forget the fact that she stabbed someone, so my point stands if you can go to prison for slapping or punching someone why can you have the chance to avoid jail when stabbing someone.

I used to work in a law firm and repsented people who have punched and slapped / kicked their partners once and some of them was their first offence and they were sent to prison most notably a nurse a repsented kicked her partner in his privates because he cheated on her was sent to prison for 6 months and lost her career as she was stuck off the nursing resigter.....

aginghippy Fri 19-May-17 15:34:40

But a violent woman must be a total deviant.

I think that is part of the reason why this case has received so much press attention. A woman stabbing her partner is news. A man stabbing his partner is not news, because it happens so often. It's the 'man bites dog' phenomenon.

hackmum Fri 19-May-17 15:40:02

For those who don't want to click on the link, here is a particularly relevant passage (though you do need to read the whole thing, ideally:

"And, lest anyone be seduced by the reflexive narrative that such merciful sentences are only afforded to white, middle class defendants, let me assure you: this course (as I said in the Bashir posts) is not unusual. Where a defendant who has never been in trouble is facing a custodial sentence of 2 years or under, and where they have the prospect of employment, education or caring responsibilities, judges will often strive to avoid passing a sentence of immediate imprisonment. That is not to deny that unconscious social or racial bias plays a part in judicial decisions; basic neuroscience teaches us that it does, to some degree at least. But the suggestion that this exceptional course is only ever reserved for the Prom Queens (or whatever our British equivalent is) is tired and lazy. The reason you don’t hear about the suspended sentences handed down for less photogenic defendants – for the 19 year-old lad starting his apprenticeship, or the 48 year-old mobile hairdresser – is mainly because the media tends not to report on them."

PamplemousseRouge Fri 19-May-17 15:47:16

Could someone please explain how she is privileged though?

ShatnersWig Fri 19-May-17 15:48:05

At least the third thread on this now.

AvonBarksdale99 Fri 19-May-17 15:48:12

Recently (linked to on that excellent Secret Barrister site above) there was a guy who attacked his wife with a cricket bat and didn't go to prison (at first) so it clearly would happen to men as well.

PamplemousseRouge Fri 19-May-17 15:49:29

Or posh? I'm not quite sure how she's posh (unless it's because she happens to be called Lavinia?)

VladmirsPoutine Fri 19-May-17 16:17:03

Ok, let's over look her poshness or lack there of it as she clearly should still have been allowed to pursue her cardiology studies. Because that's of course the point. Let's argue about her status and not what she did. Not that the fact that as a young beautiful white woman she'd have been granted a pass. No. Let's just focus on the pure nitty gritty, NOT the fact that she is a criminal.

VladmirsPoutine Fri 19-May-17 16:22:15

It's been mentioned that she went to Oxford/is currently at Oxford and that her mother lives in Italy. I don't know how that makes her particularly rich or privileged though.

It doesn't. I hear they still eat greggs sausage rolls for breakfast lunch and dinner! She's a typical run of the mill girl. No privilege to be seen in sight.

user1495025590 Fri 19-May-17 16:23:39

No way she will be allowed to practice medicine or work in any sort of clinical or caring career with a conviction for violence!

BertrandRussell Fri 19-May-17 16:27:04

Did you read the Secretbarrister article? About how similar cases are dealt with in a similar way on a regular basis?

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer Fri 19-May-17 16:59:37

Aaah vladmirs belives that you have to be privileged to go to Oxford

Not necessarily the case but you may well be right on this occasion

So men have assulted their partners and not gone to prison so yes it does happen to men

As someone mentioned its just that the media are reporting it, this situation comes up with other defendants its just not in the papers

And is is right that she hasnt been sentenced yet? So we don't actually know if she will go to prison

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer Fri 19-May-17 17:00:16

Believes

For goodness sake

No oxford education here grin

BertrandRussell Fri 19-May-17 17:01:15

The judge deferred the sentence until September.

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