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Are both sides too extreme in their policies?

(30 Posts)
hungryhippo90 Fri 12-May-17 11:31:12

Ive never ever read about politics, I was too young to have a vote, so didnt care, then I actually opposed voting because I viewed it as whatever was going to happen, would happen without my vote.

I think i understand the two main parties are Labour, and Conservative... are these the "tories?"

Am I right to understand that the labour party are the more humanitarian...kind? party? Wheras the Conservative are more Ruthless but intellectual of the two?

In a simple world, I would agree with a lot of the labour policies (or i think what their policies are) because I would want fairness for all, but in my mind the conservative party makes more sense for the good of the country?

Oh I dont know. Where is the middle ground? Conservatives shaft a lot of the citizens of this country who are less fortunate, but labour seems in favour of giving the citizens of the country far more (which i agree with) but where would that land us in 20,30,40 years time? Would Britain be in a worse position?

As I said, I have no idea about politics, and infact the only reason I thought about this was that my daughter asked me this morning, who I would be voting for.... Ive finally hit an age where I feel its important I have my vote, but they both seem to be at complete opposite sides of the spectrum (hardly surprising really) but they both seem like extreme choices to me.

id also like to ask, which one is the "left" party and which is the "right?"

as I said, I know nothing.

Justanothernameonthepage Fri 12-May-17 11:43:04

Conservatives are considered Right-wing. Typically business first and a belief in self-sufficiency.
Labour are considered centre/left-wing (moved to centre under Blair, back to left under Corbyn). Believe in public good.
Green Party are far left. UKIP, far right. WE pragmatic.
Compared to places like the USA though, conservatives wouldn't be considered Right-wing.
Once all the manifestos are out, read through the policies and then decide who to vote for. Politics shift and 20 years ago, the idea that a conservative government would push equality of marriage would have seemed bizarre.

ImperialBlether Fri 12-May-17 11:45:10

Not as bizarre as the Tories being the intellectual party!

user1491148352 Fri 12-May-17 12:00:24

Conservatives have moved to the right to pick up the UKIP vote. Corbyn's Labour have moved to the far left. Most UK voters are somewhere in the middle and are thus faced with a difficult choice. Which is why - after the next election - the mass of sensible, electable MPs in the Labour Party need to form a mass grouping and seize back control of the party machine.

hungryhippo90 Fri 12-May-17 12:11:55

Justanother...... thank you for that. I have no idea, and typically if you try to read anything about a political party, it is heavily biased by those who are for it, or those who are against!

Imperialblether...I could be wrong here, and I may look at it in a strange way, but the way i see it (rightly or wrongly) is the Tories look at things with a little more intellect than labour.

Labour seem to want to promise the citizens of the country everything, but I dont think that is a plausible promise, i dont think it will materialise.
I do think that conservatives are looking toward the future, I do think they are thinking about making the country strong, which I agree with. I think they could come through with their promise. but writing this Ive realised that all of the promises they have made will come at the detriment to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society.

I think ive just found my answer, of who I should vote for. maybe its better to have a government that is too soft, so the vulnerable arent marginalised, than a goverment that is too far the other way, so that the vulnerable are killing themselves because of the inability to be self sufficient.

hungryhippo90 Fri 12-May-17 12:17:04

*arent not are!

Thats quite funny if the convervatives are trying to pick up the UKIP vote. I gathered that the conservatives wanted to keep us as part of the EU?
Why isnt there a party that stands in the middle? why cant we vote on each separate policy? I am somewhat glad that its not only me who feels that this is a hard decision. I know 18 year olds who are voting, ive no idea how they must feel.

someonestolemynick Fri 12-May-17 12:24:25

Sorry, I had to snort at the idea that the Tories are the intellectual party:

Labour's current draft manifesto is fairly mild-mannered social democratic standard and is being practised by countries about as radical as Sweden and Germany.
The conservatives in the other hand like it in power (not that Labour doesn't) and try to force feed the voting public easily digestible bullshit like Labour "ruining the economy". They tend to get an easier ride because corporations (or their owners), such as newspapers and tv stations, like tax breaks more than they like paying tax.
They are many things but intellectual is not one of them as evidenced by the way that Britain is still feeling the aftermath of the global economic crisis, while most other European countries have largely recovered.

user1491148352 Fri 12-May-17 12:25:54

Hippo - the Conservatives were hopelessly split over Brexit as were Labour - which is the reason BOTH parties supported the absurd referendum we have just had.

When I look at Conservative policies on immigration and try to distinguish them from those of UKIP, I can't see the difference. Maybe the Conservatives would allow more exceptions for those prepared to come and work for minimum wage and return to their country of origin once their work dries up. Bit like Saudi or the Emirates.

Code42 Fri 12-May-17 12:33:29

They differ on how much role the state should have in the lives of its citizens.

Conservatives favour a small state - low bureaucracy, lots of independence/autonomy, including when things go wrong; and Labour a large state- so less personal autonomy and bigger state involvement, whether that's to do with a greater "safety net" for when things go wrong or more state involvement in eg railways/power companies etc

OdinsLoveChild Fri 12-May-17 12:35:02

I always considered the Lib Dems to be more central, a bit of a mix of the 2 main parties.

You will only know who suits your taste more by reading the manifestos pledge of lies

For me I'm happy to put up with some austerity if it benefits my children in a few years time. I don't like mortgaging the country to the hilt to spend, spend, spend, in the hope that something may happen in the future to pay it all back off again. hmm

newdocket Fri 12-May-17 12:35:46

I can't believe the way that Labour, under Corbyn, is trumped by some sections of the media as being really to the left. I think that as a nation we are instinctively more right wing than left and so the parameters are skewed.

I was never going to vote Tory anyway but as the campaign progresses I find myself in agreement with almost everything Corbyn stands for.

Anon213 Fri 12-May-17 12:36:29

When I look at Conservative policies on immigration and try to distinguish them from those of UKIP, I can't see the difference.

Quite simple Conservatives want to reduce the level of immigration to reasonable levels. UKIP want zero immigration.

I would say intellectual is quite a good description of people who know the best way to help society is to have a good economy so you generate the money to fund everything that is needed.

As opposed to people who just want to help but dont think about what harm is done by borrowing and taxing to spend massive amounts of money.

Wishingitwaswarm Fri 12-May-17 12:46:48 Use this quiz to help.

Conservatives like people to help themselves. They believe hard work should be regonised and rewarded. Dole and social security should be used in times of need, not simply a career choice. Just like the NHS should be used for the sick and needy, not for the pissed up or people going because they've cut their finger.

It's a hard line between helping people get a start in life, but not giving them everything handed on a plate.

The labour manifesto sounds lovely in practice, but who will pay for it and what are the consequences further down the line.

Example the conservatives brought in PFI. ( Privately funded hospitals). Labour when in power went mad with it. PFI will now costs the NHS over 300 billion in repayments from an original 55 billion loan. £1 in every £10 goes towards debt in the NHS

user1491148352 Fri 12-May-17 12:47:31

Anon123 - I do not agree. Just look at what Steven Woolfe MEP, UKIP's migration spokesman has said

"We need a migration policy fit for 21st Century Britain - which satisfies the needs of our economy and our society....
"Britain deserves a fair, compassionate and managed migration policy that suits our economy and helps to guarantee our national security."

So actually indistinguishable from the ground the Tories are trying to occupy - which must be pretty disturbing if you are a Conservative voter.

Anon213 Fri 12-May-17 12:57:37

You need to check your facts, Steven Woolfe is an independent MEP, he is no longer a member of UKIP.
UKIPs policy for the 2017 general election is for net ZERO immigration.

Justanothernameonthepage Fri 12-May-17 13:13:57

No problem, it can be a bit weird when you first start reading and sometimes you may agree with only 60% of the policies of one party and hate the rest. Some people find it easier to vote against some parties instead of for some parties which might help. (Eg, if your current MP supported a policy you hate, someone might want to vote for whoever is most likely to defeat them, without actively agreeing with either parties police's). And sometimes you might dislike the party, but feel that your MP is working hard for your area. Do check up on your current MP as well, their voting record and local plans

user1491148352 Fri 12-May-17 13:22:30

@Anon- you are obviously better informed than me on Ukip. Are you a member? I cannot find their 2017 GE manifesto on the internet. -can you post the link.
I had forgotten that Woolfe - UKIP immigration spokesman for the refrendum campaign had left the party after being hospitalised by a fellow UKIP MEP.
But my point stands - the Tories are moving to occupy the space UKIP occupied in the referendum campaign because they believe that has the potential to attract their traditional working class vote.

The new "one in, one out" slogan you quote is of course utter nonsense. Not measurable without setting up whole new government departments - and even the dimmest member of the electorate will realise that there is no comparison between the economic and social impact of a UK pensioner retiring abroad and that of a young worker coming to UK.

katand2kits Fri 12-May-17 13:27:04

The way I see it, why would Britain be in a worse position in 20/30/40 years time? Surely investing in education is an investment in the future of our country?

I will be voting for Labour. My decision is based on the fact that their policies are for the benefit of ordinary people. Rich business owners can only make money because of ordinary people that work for them, so it is totally unfair for those workers to be shafted just so that shareholders can get even more profits.

Labour wants our children to go to properly funded schools, and to be able to go to university without taking on enormous debts. Labour wants our children to be able to afford to rent/buy houses when they grow up, not have to stay with parents or in grotty houseshares forever, wondering if they will ever have the chance to support a family of their own.

In reply to your original post, yes it does seem that both Labour and the Conservatives are getting more "extreme" in their views. Labour of 15 years ago was a lot more centrist. The Conservatives have become more right wing than they were 15 years ago. Some people consider the Liberal Democrats to be the centre ground.

Good on you for deciding to vote this time. If you are an average, ordinary family, I would have a think about which of the parties is offering policies that will be most beneficial for you.

You are also voting for your local MP, to represent your town/area. Have a look at the candidates who are standing - they will probably have a website and a FB page, and find out what their priorities for your area are - you could even send them a message if you had questions that might swing your vote. A good local MP should work hard for their constituency and try to make it a better place to live.

Anon213 Fri 12-May-17 13:30:07

No I am not in UKIP just saw it on the news.

You might claim Tories are moving onto UKIP ground but Conservatives have had immigration down to the tens of thousands for 3 general elections now, so no movement there.

And on Question Time last night Thornbury was complaining that May was nicking Labours ideas. So I got the feeling they were moving onto New Labour territory. Is that the same as UKIP territory?

scaryteacher Fri 12-May-17 13:31:33

Someone Why do you think other European countries have 'recovered'? Greece, Spain and Italy haven't; Belgium's debt to GDP ratio is high, as is that of France. The ECB is buying up as much debt as possible and doing as much QE as it can.

Anon213 Fri 12-May-17 13:35:50

hopefully it was obvious I meant, Conservatives have had the policy of 'immigration down to the tens of thousands', for 3 general elections now.

TheLuminaries Fri 12-May-17 13:40:26

The clincher for me is that both Labour & Conservative want to go ahead with Brexit. I am voting Lib Dem as the only anti-Brexit party who wants us to to stay in the EU. I think leaving the EU will do greater damage to the country, long term, than any internal politics can. So this is all about Brexit for me.

I am in Scotland, so SNP is an option and also anti-Brexit. But I think leaving the UK would be even worse for Scotland than leaving the EU. So Lib Dem it is.

katand2kits Fri 12-May-17 13:51:31

luminaries are you aware that labour wants us to stay in the single market so that we have tariff-free access to the EU? This is one of the key reasons why I am not defecting to the Lib Dems over the Brexit issue.

TheLuminaries Fri 12-May-17 14:09:42

I thought Corbyn was a leave supporter? I am away to look into the Labour manifesto, cos this could make a difference to my vote.

Anon213 Fri 12-May-17 14:12:05

JC has said they will stay in the EU if they dont get a good deal. So quite easy for either side to engineer a situation to stay in the EU.

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