To think Corbyn is to blame for the state of the country

[Devorak]

Usually, we have a few terms of Conservatives to balance the books and get us through the tough times then a few years of Labour (new LAbour or whatever they'll need to re-brand to now) during a boom to spend.

I think a manifesto with a 30Bn hole, the manifesto being leaked and running over a reporter's foot sum up the opposition at the moment and we need a strong opposition. It ended Brown and Blair when they got too free and easy with ridiculous fiscal policy and it's necessary now to keep May from swinging away from centre-right.

AIBU to Blame Corbyn and the Labour party for what might be to come?

[TrojanWhore]

I'm not sure there's a 'usually' about it. Single term governments were common post war, then then came the 1970s where it felt like GEs were back to back. And the Lib-Lab pact.

The repeated re-election of the Tories (meaning government from 1979 to 1997) then New Labour (1997-2010) was the anomaly. Or at least he anomaly then. Perhaps there is going to be a new normal of longer periods of one party forming the government.

I think you're right that the Tories tend to put the economy back together, and then Labour spend it all - often with little to show for it (look at the level of criticism of school buildings, only a few years since the projects to rebuild commissioned under the Labour poilicy actually came into use).

Remember Brown's "prudence" was merely the strapline for their electoral promise to continue Tory economic policy for the first years of a New Labour government.

[TheNaze73]

We do need a strong opposition to hold the government accountable. The shambolic state of the opposition at the moment is staggering.

[StillDrivingMeBonkers]

The last 40 year have all been right wing governments. Blair was right wing.

No one wants a return to left wing anarchy and frivolous spending.

[Devorak]

You're right with regard to the usually. Perhaps I should have said recently, but then I first voted in 1979 and it doesn't seem that recent!

I point was more about a strong opposition keeping balance. We need both (centre) left and right policies. You need softer governance during booms and May / Thatcher when it's all going a bit wrong. I was a consultant working with OFSTED and DoE a while ago and do you know what kind of heads we sought advice from when rescuing schools from special measures? Absolute bastards! Those bastards would be kept in check by other means. I think I've gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but I wanted to say that there are times when centre left or centre right governments and needed but opposition is needed. We need May at the moment and for the next term, but we need her kept on a leash. Corbyn can't do that.

[grumpygiraffe]

If you think that "running over a reporter's foot" is remotely relevant, and then expect people to take the rest of your post seriously, then yes, YABVU.

[Two4One2017]

I am waiting for the full costings in their manifesto to see whether there is a hole, or just how big it is. (eg. no mention about how to renationalise the industries....are they going to seize the assets or buy out shareholders (and rolling stock if railways) which will cost many billions), in addition to the many billions for all the other measures - The Times is reporting this morning it totals an additional £90 billion per year in Government spending.

However, I blame Corbyn and the rest of the Labour party for their shambolic effort as a supposed opposition to the Government....and for that reason alone I could never trust them to actually run the country.

At least the Lib Dems are honest about 1p income tax rise for everyone just for the NHS.

[araiwa]

i genuinely despise this hard Tory attitude

times are tight so we need to cut spending/ increase revenue

Every time the tory attitude is to cut spending on the weakest, most vulnerable people in the country at the same time as giving tax cuts to their rich mates and/ or business. If we are in austerity why the fuck are the richest getting tax reductions??

actually collecting the correct amount of tax from the likes of google, amazon, vodafone etc could easily have offset the costs of various measures to help the poor and needy.

Fuck Theresa May and her friends in the tory party. thatcher could do one too

[UrsulaPandress]

I think the running over the reporter's foot is relevant. It shows that when things are going badly, they can always get worse.

[namechange20050]

the tories have added another third on to the national debt. What's this balancing the books you speak of??

[araiwa]

when torys balance the books they take money from the poor and give it to the rich

[Devorak]

grumpygiraffe

It seems to me to be a metaphor for his party and leadership.

I realise that AIBU does often lead to quantity over quality with regard to responses, but it was going so well ...

Anyway, thanks for your contribution.

DribingMeBonkers

I'm surprised you think Blair was right wing. He's clearly to the right of Corbyn and the current manifesto (limiting bosses pay to a ratio of lower-paid employees, for example), but Blair's policies and the reasoning behind them was pure left-thinking.

Increases (real terms) in NHS spending

Minimum wage

increase living standards for worse off

human rights act

tax credits

child tax credits ... a long list.

Even Corbyn hasn't said Blair was right wing but stuck with 'neo-Liberal'. Blair was waaaaaay right of the new Labour manifesto, but I think that that speaks volumes about current Labour and less about Blair's very balanced approach to politics. Blair made a terrible mistake with the war and with allowing the banking sector to fuck the country but as a floating (but mostly Tory) voter, I'd be campaigning and door knocking for Blair right now!

[hackmum]

namechange: "The tories have added another third on to the national debt. What's this balancing the books you speak of??"

Indeed. It's absolute bollocks to say that the Tories balance the books. The current economic problems were caused by the bankers, who have all got off scot-free.

The Tories work on the Goebbels principle that if you tell a lie big enough and often enough, people will believe it. How right they are.

[Devorak]

araiwa

You seem to be someone who missed the point of the thread. I really wondered if anyone else feels that Corbyn is letting the country down. Cameron was needed after Blair / Brown. Blair's third-way was great after Thatcher. The opposition is a necessary part of governance. A landslide loss shows a party it's lost its way. A near win/loss shows that things are roughly okay.

Why don't you take your ability to despise others and spit bile somewhere else. I'm a member of the Tory party so I gues you find me despicable.


namechange20050

There's an interesting thread running talking about the differenc e between reducing debt and reducing deficit and in the last onth or two there was a poster who educated everyone I think (no matter what their political views as to the differences in policies,
especially fiscal policies. I'll look for it rather than try to explain what I learnt. She was excellent and people like a couple of posters above stopped their silly name-calling to read and learn. I learnt a lot.

Here's the thread that's just started. I'll look for the other.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2927122-To-think-this-stat-about-the-UK-debt-is-spin-and-ask-someone-for-a-longer-term-graph

[Devorak]

namechange20050

Sorry. I tired to edit my reply to you but I'm on a phone and it seems a little nonsensical. Hope it's understandable!

[Two4One2017]

Here's are some charts which help to set out the state of the economy with respect to Government debt (increasing) and the deficit (what the Govt has to borrow each year - falling) - includes some historical detail and also what our interest payments are

www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

At the end it also comments that National Debt levels are actually higher than stated when you take into account pension liabilities and PFI contracts (which was the reason the Labour Govt financed everything on PFI because it was "off balance sheet")

[SaturnsRings]

But it was going so well you said. Yeh, because you're a Tory and were getting your first replies from Tories. Then someone came along with a different view how dare they

[grumpygiraffe]

You think Corbyn is to blame for the state of the country, and as evidence you provide a metaphor? Seriously?

[ShatnersWig]

Not quite as simple as that. But the blame is definitely Labour's in various forms.

The unions huge support meant Ed Miliband won the leadership after the 2010 general election instead of David Miliband. Then the unions and rank and file members (including loads who joined just to vote) elected Corbyn to replace Ed, and Corbyn was the worst of the bunch. In turn, this meant many decent MPs wouldn't work with him in his shadow cabinet. So Corbyn surrounded himself with fans and people with very poor aptitude for the jobs. No one decent stood against Corbyn in the coup/leadership challenge, so he stayed in.

All of this collectively has meant no serious opposition since Corbyn took office but the rot set in when Ed was picked.

[YouTheCat]

The Tories have increased our national debt to unprecedented levels. I fail to see how they're the ones to get us out of this financial mess. They are just making it all so much worse. And the ones it's hitting are the poorest and most vulnerable.

[araiwa]

so youre saying it is Corbyns fault that they havent provided enough opposition to the awful tory policies?

maybe blame the torys for having their awful policies in the first place....

[Devorak]

Saturns

The people you assume are Tories managed to reply without despising anyone or anything.

grumpy

A leaked manifesto, a ridiculous manifesto and running over a reporter's foot do seem indicative of Corbyn and the Labour party. Obviously, you ignored my comment about the manifesto as it's pretty indefensible.

Yes, I do blame Corbyn. We need May, but May who's wary of being too radical. As it is, she's likely to have a historic landslide due to an ineffectual opposition. Strong oppositions keep people (politicians or anyone) under control. Knowing you've got no challengers means you get carried away.

I think Brexit is to blame for the state of the country but now that it is happening, it is far and away the most important part of the election, eclipsing everything else. I think May is the leader we need to steer us through Brexit. As I said, I would be actively campaigning for Blair, if he were an option.

hackmum

Who gave the bankers free reign to fuck the country? Balancing the books of a country means slowing down and then reducing the deficit before simply paying-off debts. That's what the Conservatives are doing. Have you looked at the deficit jumps during LAbour's government and it wasn't simply the banks causing this.

[ToastDemon]

Corbyn was in a car that ran over a reporter's foot. He didn't actually do so.

Given how biased against him the BBC are, I wonder if it afforded him a moment of quiet satisfaction though.

[araiwa]

the reporter should be thankful it was Corbyns car that ran him over

Theresa Mays car would have repeatedly driven over him to ensure they died. then set the hounds on him. then billed his family for cleaning up the blood.

[grumpygiraffe]

There are many genuine areas in which Corbyn can be criticised, but all you focus on is trivia. You really shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Devorak]

grumpygiraffe

Are you genuinely illiterate or choosing not to read my comments in full?

I spoke about his manifesto (the leaking of it as well as it's preposterously nonsensical promises) but you seem to have monomaniacal focus on the car driving over the foot.

It's sad that you see his manifesto as trivia, but that's the point I was trying to make. He has made the opposition trivial.