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AIBU?

to be in a muddle about how I want to parent (breastfeeding/sleep)

27 replies

heretomakeupthenumbers · 30/04/2017 14:13

I was the perfect parent with clear ideas of what I wanted and how it would all be. Then DD (PFB) came along, and scrapped all that and I found myself winging it/working it out as we went along. All seemed ok, if not perfect, but now 18 months later I feel like what we're doing is just not working anymore and I don't know how to fix it, mostly as I'm not sure what I want.

Difficult pregnancy and awful, medicalised birth, ill DD and long hospital stay but I was determined to breastfeed so did. It wasn't easy - lots of pain/mastitis and not much support but we eventually got there. From birth she would fall asleep at the breast (bad, I know) but to be honest, she didn't do much else other than sleep and feed for a LONG time - never was an 'awake' newborn. We got to the point where she could fall asleep on her own in the moses/cot, but it all went downhill after a holiday and we were back to her falling asleep at the breast. Then she was ill a lot, so waking up a lot at night and somehow ended up both breastfeeding multiple times at night AND taking her into the bed (also bad, I know) with us for the sake of a few hours sleep/sanity. This was all 'ok' while I was on maternity leave (I could nap in the day or lie in with her the next morning), but 6 months into working fulltime and I feel like I'm going to collapse wth exhaustion - its just not working for me anymore.

Problem is I'm not sure what I want/how to change! I think its the combination of still breastfeeding (which DH isn't especially supportive of), multiple wake-ups at night, where she just wants to feed and not just having DD in our bed, but her nighttime clinginess (constantly waking up and 'checking' I'm there or asking for milk) made worse since I was away over easter. Breastfeeding - I wouldn't mind just feeding her at bedtime and in the morning (what I had hoped to aim for once I started work but just isn't happening) but all through the night is exhausting. She has seen a paediatrician for her health problems who recently started treatment for reflux - so I don't know whether she's waking up because it hurts and the milk is soothing that, or if its just a learned behaviour. Sleep - she's never slept through the night. Even when she fell asleep on her own, in the cot and stayed in the cot all night, she did always wake up agitated and take a lot of soothing or a breastfeed to go back to sleep. Being ill messed up that routine (which was the best its ever been) and I don't know if its even possible to go back to that. I don't even mind having her in the bed with us, if she wants comfort and will sleep better - she does settle with cuddles, but wakes up soon after asking for milk. DH says that milk is all she wants me for (DH says many unkind things currently - we're not in a good place), which though partly true (there is a lot of boob grabbing at night, and sometimes in the day) has hit home and is getting me a bit down about it all Sad

Posting for advice/ideas, and open to suggestions or criticism(!) from all points of view really. (This post is probably outing, but I don't really care anymore).

OP posts:
user1488721675 · 30/04/2017 14:27

It seems the feeding is the main issue, do you think it's just a comfort thing? Is it thirst? Would a beaker of water, expressed milk or cows milk help rather than a breastfeed? I don't see anything wrong with them sharing your bed personally, our 16 month old does most night, his brother was 5 before he wanted his own room and our daughter was 3 (now at 5 still comes in after a bad dream or feeling unwell) she's still little at 18 month and it's perfectly normal to still want mummy in the night, as is night waking, I'm 36 and still don't sleep through Wink
But if the night breastfeeding is an issue for you then its something that needs to change, try offering it at bedtime and that's it till morning, try a sippy cup of something else, a comfort toy, cuddles, there's no magic formula it's just finding something that works for you.

haveacupoftea · 30/04/2017 14:29

Would she take a bottle at night? Or a dummy when she needs soothing?

hangingkebab · 30/04/2017 14:30

Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time OP, and especially that your DH is being shitty about it. It sounds like he knows exactly how to hurt you most. Are you able to challenge him on this?

First off, please don't think of your parenting as 'bad' - you've found ways to settle your DD, when she needed you to. Now, your circs are different, so you need to find new ways. That's all.

I have had two DC, both sound very similar in many ways to your DD (although didn't have reflux beyond newborn stage so I have no advice there I'm afraid). Both slept in our bed and used the breast as comfort as you describe - and like you I reached the stage where I was completely ground down by it!
I have a theory (based on absolutely no science) that reaching this point is a necessary stage when breastfeeding as it helps you come to terms with stopping. I know it's a lot easier said than done, but it does sound like maybe it's time to get strict about no milk through the night. It almost certainly won't be as bad as you think - you'll have a few bad nights but DD will get the message pretty quickly.

And she definitely doesn't only want you for milk. She just loves you like a fat kid loves cake Grin.

Sorry if I've rambled a bit, I'm a bit hungover. Feel free to ask me to clarify anything that is particularly unclear!

HollyTr · 30/04/2017 14:44

Hi OP, I don't have much advice on the feeding but I was in a similar state to you six months after going back to work after DC1 and if I could speak to myself then I would say:

  1. Please don't feel you are a bad parent because you and your baby are in a new stage. I thought this too but some years on in the parenting journey I now think you never get to the magical place where you know what you're doing because children change so much and so quickly that as soon as you've mastered one stage they are onto the next.
  2. I think six months after going back after DC1 is about the hardest point, it's a big adjustment for the baby, you and DH (who has said something dickish but is probably also exhausted and wondering how to fix things), all your energy reserves from may leave are used up and you don't really know it will get better.

    I think you are doing great, you have got over a horrible birth and having an ill baby, managed to bond with your child and breastfeed, you're back at work and you're holding a marriage of two very tired people together. Try the strategies re the feeding and something will work but in the meantime give yourself a pat on the back Flowers
SpecialStains · 30/04/2017 14:49

First of all, I think you sound like an awesome parent and probably do similar to me. I breastfeed/co-sleep. I am happy with this, DH sleeps in another room so always gets a good nights sleep and he's fully on board with me breastfeeding until at least 2yrs. Feeding to sleep is a perfectly fine way to soothe a baby if you're happy doing it, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. Your dd is obviously very bonded to you and she'll learn to sleep by herself in her own time if you don't change anything.

However, if you're not happy with the arrangement (and I wouldn't stop what you're doing because your dh doesn't like it - breast is best until two years old and your daughter is just reconnecting with you after being away in the daytime), obviously you just need to be firm on where she sleeps at night and offer a cup of water instead of milk. Maybe DH could take over putting her back and offering a cup of water consistently for a week? I personally wouldn't start with dummies or bottles if you've not used them before.

haveacupoftea · 30/04/2017 14:51

Breast obviously isn't best for the OP who is at the end of her tether.

TheSkyAtNight · 30/04/2017 14:56

You're doing great & nothing you've done is 'bad'. It's been meeting your baby's needs. Now you feel it needs to change & that's fine too.

I would suggest your oh settles baby with water or milk & cuddles in the night - maybe initially for one of the wakes - earlier is generally easier to resettle without boob. Then if that's going ok, you can try cutting out another feed & so on.

She doesn't 'just' want you for boob! Relationship stuff is so much easier with sleep.

Sparrowlegs248 · 30/04/2017 15:05

Sorry OP I haven't rtft (I have two under two, both napping!!!!)

Ds1 was similar, bf every 40 minutes through the night for the first couple of months. Co slept etc.

I started by firming up a goid bedtime routine. Bath, pj's, two stories (same ones every night) and then bf with musical mobile on. Put in cot asleep. Then started offering cows milk in a soft spouted cup. Took a few nights before he decided he didn't want bf (first 4 nights he bf a bit, drank a bit back and forth) I would then cuddle to sleep, put in cot.

Then........I started gradual withdrawal. Sane routine, but put in cot with milk (this is apparently a bad idea, it worked for us) and mobile on. Stood over cot patting, singing, whatever til he fell asleep. I did the withdrawal very very gradually. Sat on floor hand through bars, sat bit further away. Never a big enough change to caused crying. Eventually (two months maybe?) could put in the cot with milk, put mobile on and leave. He'd take 15-20 minutes to sleep but was fine as long as the mobile was on. The first night took 75 minutes, and over the two months we had bouncing up and down, striding about the cot, trying to do peekaboo etc. I didn't engage in play, just patted the mattress, said lie down, night night etc.

Once this was established he woke less and less. He still came into my bed and Co slept from waking, and bf. Then Obe night he slept through til 5am in his cot. I stopoednight feeds then. Still picked him up and took him into bed but sat and cuddled back to sleep. Then laid him next to me. Then cut out the sitting and just laid down with him. No bf before 5am. Then again, he slept to 6am and I stopped bf in the morning. He was 19 months then, that was an end to bf for us, I was sad as I hadn't even known he'd stop. But it was a week before ds2 was born so for the best!

Hope some of that waffle is useful!

DuggeeHugs · 30/04/2017 15:07

It's exhausting trying to keep up sometimes and illness always seems to set things back a bit for us in the breastfeeding department.

I've been breastfeeding DC for 20 months and really needed to drop the bedtime and overnight feed around Christmas time as I couldn't cope with that and first trimester nausea.

We inadvertently used a combination of three things:

  1. Putting one of my t-shirts in the bed too - now if they wake at night they snuggle it and go back to sleep rather than call for milk (9 nights out of 10 at least)
  2. Moved from cot to toddler bed. We hadn't intended to do this for a while but DC figured out how to launch themself out of the cot Confused . They love their bed and are much more comfortable, also contributing to good sleeping
  3. This was the hard one - refusing multiple bedtime feeds. I just cuddled DC while they cried for 5 minutes before falling asleep. Within a week there was no more crying for bedtime feeds and now they will get into bed and settle before lights out. We take a cup of water in at bedtime too so there's always a drink available


I hope you find a technique that works for you because it can be so demoralizing when you're that tired Flowers
SpecialStains · 30/04/2017 15:08

Haveacupoftea - I read the post as that it was more the pressure from others to stop feeding at night thar was the issue and perceiving it as 'bad' that's the issue. Op herself says she doesn't know what she wants to change, so it's not necessarily that she wants to stop breastfeeding. When I've had a string of bad nights it often feels that people leap to saying stop breastfeeding rather than trying to support me to continue because they don't understand the huge emotional attachment both ds and to an extent myself, have to breastfeeding. In this case the ops dh doesn't sound like he's helping much.

Obviously op if your mental health is suffering you should stop feeding - you've done amazingly to feed for this long and given your dd a wonderful start. Sorry if I've misinterpreted your post. Flowers

DuggeeHugs · 30/04/2017 15:12

Sorry, meant to add that we haven't dropped any other feeds so DC breastfeeds 3 or 4 times a day apart from bedtime, mostly for comfort but that works for us

Chavelita · 30/04/2017 15:21

OP, nothing whatsoever about your parenting is 'bad'! You've been doing what worked (or what was least problematic), and now you've decided that some of this is no longer working for you and your baby.

What would be easiest for you to do right now? What would get you the most rest? Do that.

And your DH needs to support you. He sounds as if he's been a massive prick about it all. Do you have someone else you can rely on for actual support until someone gives DH a whack on the head?

Fruitcorner123 · 30/04/2017 15:28

Sorry to hear you're having trouble i couldn't cope with the sleepless nights on maternity leave let alone when working full time so sounds like you are doing anazingly. I dropped feeding in the night at 12 months with both mine. It had o be forced. We were only feeding once by then so i suppose you could start by dropping one particular feed. The way I did is agree with DH that he would get up for that feed for a week or so and offer water and comfort and cuddle. If the crying lasted more than a few minutes i would try and help but that didn't actually work so we stopped doing that. It took a week or two with both children and lots of crying but we didn't leave them to cry just offered comfort and water but no milk. I still fed them at bedtime and in the morning and they had milk in the day if they wanted it but they grew out of that and had water/juice instead most of the time.

In our case the babies still woke once in the night but after a couple of weeks were happy with a a cuddle and just settled back to sleep. They don't need milk through the night at that age it is just a comfort thing.

This doesn't mean you have to give up breastfeeding yet but if you give it up in the night for your own health you might find you feel a lot happier.

Heirhelp · 30/04/2017 15:41

I have no advice as regrettably only managed to breast feed for 6 weeks. I think you have a few things going at the moment your DH being a dick, issues with sleeping which are contected to sleeping issues. Other people will give good advice but I just wanted to say that getting rid of boobing to sleep may just had another issue of how to get to sleep. You need to think overall what is best for your family.

YokoReturns · 30/04/2017 18:21

OP Flowers I did exactly what you did with DS1: fed to sleep, co-slept, BF til 32 months etc. He is now 4 1/2 and wakes once per night and comes in for a snuggle. I don't expect it to last forever. He is also happy, well-adjusted, confident and bright.

I'm doing the exact same with DS2 (11 months). I have no regrets, neither should you.

Ignore DH. He's wrong, basically.

YokoReturns · 30/04/2017 18:24

PS Google Dr Jay Gordon - his method helped me to get DS1 off the boob at night, if that's something you want to do.

toomuchtooold · 30/04/2017 19:01

I'd recommend <a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Your-Child-Sleep-Childhood-ebook/dp/B019CV4742/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493574687&sr=8-1&keywords=teach%20your%20child%20to%20sleep%20the%20millpond%20sleep%20clinic&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Teach Your Child To Sleep - it's got details of various sleep issues such as night feeding, feeding to sleep etc, and it's got a variety of methods to try as well, some very gentle, if you're not up for full on sleep training. The people who wrote the book also run a sleep clinic which we used and found them awesome.

I would also talk to your paediatrician and see what they say about her health problems and sleep. I'm going to don my flameproof vest for this now, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with co sleeping or any of the rest of it but if you wanted, and if DD has no health problems that interfere with her sleep, you most probably will be able to get her to sleep 10-13 hours alone in her bed without waking up on most nights. And once you're sleeping properly, you'll be in a better place to deal with your DH.

TrollMummy · 30/04/2017 19:21

I think you've reached the point where what you are doing is no longer working now are back at work. I guess you need to decide what needs to happen in order to make things work better for you and your family. Sleep is essential for your health and wellbeing it is also important for your childs development and your relationship. Personally, I would prioritise this over continued breast feeding and co sleeping. That's not to say it's going to be easy or straightforward to change things but it will be worth it in the end.

EatsShitAndLeaves · 30/04/2017 19:31

Poor you Flowers

I could I written your post when DS was little.

For me, it all came to a head one night where DH found me in the bedroom with DS at 11 at night and me just crying my eyes out, utterly broken with exhaustion.

I remember him saying kindly but forcefully, that enough was enough. He took DS, told me to go to sleep, got in the car, drove to the nearest supermarket and bought some formula.

Came home, made up a bottle and then fed DS.

From that night we started "dual feeding". A lot of people think it always has to be BF or FF - but we found DS was happy with either.

It took a huge pressure off me tbh. I could still BF but I could forget about expressing and DH was able to help - which he wanted to do.

You might want to think about this as an option.

Allthewaves · 30/04/2017 19:35

If you lo has reflux - could there be a milk intolerance? Wouldn't the constant night feeding make her reflux worse?

i would night wean, you all sound so tired. Could u and dh take turns sleeping alone so u gets a good nights sleep each?

Joni234 · 30/04/2017 20:01

Sorry you're having a tough time OP. Nothing you've done so far is 'bad' !!!
I haven't read all the comments but I have been in your shoes and the book 'No Cry Sleep Solution' completely changed things for us. DS is now 3 and settles himsellf in his own bed and stays there all night. There is light at the end of the tunnel although I know it feels far off. I hope things improve for you soon

KourtneyKardashian · 30/04/2017 20:31

Firstly , you are not a bad parent and you haven't "muddled" through. You are parenting and you are making choices based on the information you have at the time and based on your feelings at the time. It's difficult to analyse past decisions as you will always have additional information as it happened in the past (if that makes sense).

Two things to 'tackle' if you want to, and that's key. You need to review, with your DP if you both want to change things as they can be changed:

1 breastfeeding I fed dd to 2.5 years. But I night weaned gently at 16 months using Dr Jay Gordon's sleep weaning method. Read it, print it and make your DP read it as he can also review and see if this is right for you both (I literally emailed it DH twice and printed it out).

2 sleeping you both need to decide what is best. Perhaps tackle breastfeeding first, then sleep. Can you put a cot bed next to your bed? With the side down, it basically extends your bed. Get her used to the cot bed with her next to you and slowly start using the cot bed rather than her bed.

The thing is, you can leave it as is if you are happy, rather than you wanting to change because someone is telling you to, or because you feel you ought to. Do what's right for your family only.

Op, you're doing a fab job, don't doubt yourself.

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heretomakeupthenumbers · 30/04/2017 22:59

Crazy family BH weekend! Haven't had a chance to read through all posts properly yet, but thank you for the opinions & advice - it has given me lots of things to think about. Gentle night weaning seeming the most obvious/acceptable thing to do now. And yes, I'm sure the tiredness is contributing to the gulf between DH & I. Thank you for the Flowers and understanding. Sadly DD didn't come with a manual Wink but we'll get there (with a bit of MN support!)

OP posts:
SpecialStains · 05/05/2017 16:22

How are you getting on, op?

heretomakeupthenumbers · 06/05/2017 08:56

We're doing the Jay Gordon thing, kind of. Have got to the point of breastfeeding to go to bed and breastfeeding in the morning but not during the 11-6am bit. She still wakes in the night and asks, but gets cuddled instead and just 'hands on boob' which seems to be enough for reassurance and she falls back asleep quite quickly. It's much less often and I think we're all sleeping better already. Ideally we'd do more, but at the moment this is working so we'll see.

Again, thank you so much for all the advice.

OP posts:
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