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To think that "well she's only 13" is not an excuse for child to not understanding basic legal issues?

(104 Posts)
MrsExpo Wed 26-Apr-17 13:38:09

Prepared to be flamed for this, but as a none parent I'm struggling to understand why an intelligent, well educated 13 year old would not be able to understand a couple of basics about what is, and is not, legal. To give some background ...

Issue 1 ... this girl owns a horse and has recently discovered a broken fence off a nearby bridle path, which allows access to a private farm area with nice grass tracks, perfect for riding on. This is private property, not public right of way, and the owners do not take kindly to people trespassing on it. They own their own horses and keep the area for their own use. Fair enough. But she can't understand the basic premise of trespassing, and private property being private, and thus that her going there is not great and could get her into some significant bother.......

Issue 2 ... (perhaps a bit more complex) ... she regularly copies and shares copyright images from different web sites on her FB and Twitter feeds, even if they have the photographer's copyright plastered all over them. She cannot understand that pictures actually belong to someone in the same way as other property, and she should therefore not steal them for her own use, even if they are on a web site somewhere, and are thus accessible.

I think she's old enough and bright enough to understand right from wrong in these situations. As I said, not a mother of teenage girls myself, so I might be way off beam here. AIBU?

MrsELM21 Wed 26-Apr-17 13:40:11

Are you the person who owns the land and the photos??

LiviaDrusillaAugusta Wed 26-Apr-17 13:40:19

To be fair, everyone does the photo thing - as long as she isn't trying to pass them off as her work, she's no different from everyone else.

I can't comment about the horse situation.

Has she stolen your photos?

UppityHumpty Wed 26-Apr-17 13:43:11

Electric fence would sort out the tresspassing.

Whatslovegottodo Wed 26-Apr-17 13:43:42

Seems fairly typical for a teenager to me. Pushing the boundaries yes, and not ideal, but nothing too serious. No one is getting hurt and nothing damaged. Maybe I am lax though as it sounds like I would of done theses things myself at her age with little regard.
How are you involved? I couldn't be getting upset about it myself life's too short.

WeirdAndPissedOff Wed 26-Apr-17 13:43:43

I think most 13 year old would be able to understand the above once told, but they wouldn't necessarily think of there being a legal issue if they aren't told first.
And I agree that many people use copyrighted photos without a second thought - may not be right but it's commonly done. I wouldn't get too het up about it unless they have been told to stop by the photo owner and still carried on.

MelinaMercury Wed 26-Apr-17 13:46:48

I have probably copied/shared copyright photos, tbh if you put it in public and do not state explicitly that it must not be shared or that the artist/photographer must be acknowledged then shit happens. Particularly where social media is concerned.

I would expect her to understand trespassing though. But then again i went places i shouldn't when i was younger. I understood that it belonged to someone but figured as long as i wasnt causing any damage it didn't really matter. I wouldn't do that now but back then i would and did regularly.

TitaniasCloset Wed 26-Apr-17 13:48:00

Everyone does the photo sharing thing, I'm not even sure of the legalities myself. So long as you aren't passing them off as your own or haven't been warned by the owner I don't see the issue. When people put tags on their photos its a way of promoting themselves on social media really.

So far as the horse riding, she isn't hurting anyone, but if the owners have objected then she should be asked to stop.

2014newme Wed 26-Apr-17 13:48:58

Get the fence repaired. Problem solved.

MrsExpo Wed 26-Apr-17 13:49:43

I own some of the photos in question (not all), and am acquainted with the land owners, but do not own the property in question. This is really about whether - at 13 - she is old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong. I'm not falling out with her or her mother about any of this; just curious really.

Stealing photos is theft, regardless of the fact that "everyone" does it, but I do have an axe to grind on that one to be fair .....

DancingLedge Wed 26-Apr-17 13:50:08

Teenagers generally not keen to admit they're in the wrong.Even if they know full well they are.

Unless there's SN of some sort?

PatriciaHolm Wed 26-Apr-17 13:51:03

Does she not understand, or just not care?

RuncibleSp00n Wed 26-Apr-17 13:51:18

In terms of the psychology/neuro-anatomy of teenagers and their decisions: yes, 13 is old enough to technically understand the theory of things being legal/illegal and why this might be, BUT...
Teenagers develop conceptual understanding usually before their impulse control / self-censorship / higher executive functioning has developed to the same level.

Basically: YABU for confusing an 'understanding of basic legal issues' for 'ability to adhere to the law'. A child of 13 could be expected to to the former but not reasonably the latter.

FrancisCrawford Wed 26-Apr-17 13:51:26

She shouldn't be riding her horse on someone else land. If the owners have told her not to and she continues they should contact her parents

Ecureuil Wed 26-Apr-17 13:51:28

What does she say when you explain it to her? I'm a bit confused by 'unable to understand'. Once it's explained is she still refusing to believe that that is indeed the law?

MelinaMercury Wed 26-Apr-17 13:51:44

Would i expect a 13yo to understand right from wrong? Yes.

Would i expect a 13yo to understand the legalities of copyright infringement and trespassing? Not so much.

BeeFarseer Wed 26-Apr-17 13:53:10

I agree with the poster who said that a thirteen year old might not think of the legal implications first, but should understand after being told. My seven year old can grasp what trespassing is; he knows it's going somewhere that belongs to someone else when they haven't said you are allowed.

The photo thing... A thirteen year old in my family did this for something she wanted to sell, and used someone else's photos instead of taking her own. She was very upset at being asked to stop using the photos because she didn't think she was doing anything wrong, but she understands now.

Freshprincess Wed 26-Apr-17 13:53:14

Issue 1 - I wouldn't expect a teen to know much about trespassing but if she has been told not to go there and why not yet still does then I think you are right
Issue 2 - this is sooo common as not just with teens. I work in marketing and have had graphic designers, who ought to know better, sending me images grabbed from google. If she is using them commercially then she might at a stretch get into some trouble. I wouldn't expect mine to understand this.

Moreisnnogedag Wed 26-Apr-17 13:54:11

The photo thing - meh. I think with regards to digital copyright there's huge swathes of the adult population that aren't aware.

The trespassing thing is different but I'd expect the landowners to make their property secure.

WannaBe Wed 26-Apr-17 13:54:23

Stealing photo's may be considered to be theft by some, but in truth most people don't care. These things are in the public domain, and everyone copies them, in the same way most people have downloaded music or films etc at some point.

The internet has made it practically impossible to observe any kind of copyright now.

You could explain it to a thirteen year old, but the reality is that most adults don't care, so it's essentially unreasonable to expect a child to care. They're just photo's as far as most people are concerned.

BeeFarseer Wed 26-Apr-17 13:54:41

Oh, and YY to understanding and obeying being different.

FrancisCrawford Wed 26-Apr-17 13:55:34

I disagree about a 13 year old being unable to understand the concept of "X is illaegal which was you must not do X"

Children learn their friendshouse is not the same as their house at a much younger age. Of course she knows she should not be on the land, she just doesn't care. There are no effective deterrents in place to stop her, such as her parents saying "if you do this one more time you cannot ride alone

LedaP Wed 26-Apr-17 13:56:18

Yanbu. Not sure where the other posters are coming from tbh.

Its theft and trespassing.

If she can not grasp this she shouldnt have access to social media or be taking her horse out unsupervised.

Who is telling you she doesn't understand?

Her parents? What thry mean is that they let her do what she wants.

The fence should not have to be repaired because she refuses to stop tresspassing.

Ollivander84 Wed 26-Apr-17 13:56:25

Yes. I had a horse at that age and if someone had said to me "you can't ride on there" then I would have not done it

Same with the photos - I might not necessarily have understood the whole of the copyright legality but if it said you couldn't use them then I wouldn't. But I can see that she might think well all my mates are putting them on Instagram or FB... Copyright + horses + photos is a big annoying thing

MelinaMercury Wed 26-Apr-17 13:56:30

Right, so i think I've missed something.

The owners have spoken to her about trespassing and explained that it's an issue? If so, then yes she has been informed and is old enough to understand not to repeat it.

Same goes for copyright really, if she's been informed about the issue then there's no excuse.

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