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Vegan and vegetarian

(95 Posts)
MeowMeowMeowOink Mon 24-Apr-17 23:07:16

I am not an expert in either, nor do I believe in either eating habits/way of life/etc etc. (Not to be dismissive but my family for the last 100 years have been butchers!) This is not an attack on choices, more I am interested tell me more. (So I can be less ignorant. Not to change my views)

Just sent little party invites for DCs birthday, we are catering (putting out sarnies) so asked for dietry/allergy info (bloody hell children's parties are hard work, what ever happened to jam sandwiches and party rings..) had two rsvps so far, the first was we are veggie, the second vegan.

It's really got me thinking, where I haven't before now, why is there a difference? More thinking dairy, because male calves are killed in the dairy process, so what's the point in vegetarian, if you eat dairy, you still killing animals? That's just one example I think, it possibly applies to eggs too?

bigmouthstrikesagain Mon 24-Apr-17 23:22:42

Having butcher's in your family tree doesn't preclude you from understanding/ being vegan/ vegetarian. My Grandfather and great grandfather were butchers. My Dad was a meat and two veg and black pudding man .. Right up to his death aged 54 and his forefathers also died in their fifties.

I have been vegetarian since I was 15, so 28 years so far. I have dabbled in veganism but I found it too difficult I prefer to limit my environmental impact on the world but I am not perfect. It is easier now to be veggie and vegan - nearly 30 years ago it was all sosmix and cheese sarnies and beans on toast (as a poor student). But the variety of alternatives available now is fantastic.

It is true that there are many issues with continuing to

Pinkandwhiteblossoms Mon 24-Apr-17 23:24:35

I think every time someone chooses a cruelty free alternative, it's good.

If you used to have cows milk every day and now have soya milk every other day that's good. If you used to eat meat every day but now eat it six days a week that's also good.

bigmouthstrikesagain Mon 24-Apr-17 23:27:28

Consume dairy, but I became vegetarian at a time when it was still acceptable to wear fur and test make up on rabbits. Times are changing and I think the issues of feeding an expanding population will make being mostly vegetarian or vegan the most cost effective and Emily sound way to live. Petty arguments about which is better don't interest me, people should do what they can to reduce the use of animals as a food and improve the living conditions of farm animals. However they can.

Wickedstepmum67 Mon 24-Apr-17 23:28:52

Well, it was pineapple chunks and bits of cheese on cocktail sticks when I were a nipper - cutting edge kids' party food circa 1974. Anyhow: vegans would generally take the view no animal exploitation is acceptable, so just excluding meat from the diet is not dealing with the issue of animal rights. Battery hens and dairy cattle don't have the best quality of life. Vegans also don't usually wear leather, silk or wool as, again, these are animal-based materials, neither do they eat honey (again, an animal product).

TheRealPooTroll Mon 24-Apr-17 23:29:06

Well some vegetarians aren't ethical veggies - they just don't like the idea of eating meat or feel it is a healthier/more environmentally friendly way to eat. A relative of mine is veggie but wears leather shoes for eg. Also some Muslim friends of mine go for the veggie option when out as they know it will be Halal.

chastenedButStillSmiling Mon 24-Apr-17 23:31:35

People are veggie/vegan for all sorts of different reasons. Some people are allergic or have food intolerances; but you shouldn't assume people who are vegetarian are necessarily doing so around cruelty to animal issues. My DD (curse her ears) is currently vegetarian, and her reasoning is around decreasing her impact on the planet; animals dying doesn't particularly upset her. we are missing meat <sobs>

baled Mon 24-Apr-17 23:32:21

Male calves aren't always killed in the 'dairy process'.

chitofftheshovel Mon 24-Apr-17 23:32:23

I think I get what you're saying OP.

So, if a person decides to be vegetarian for ethical reasons how can they justify eating dairy (which, some would argue, have poorer practices than the meat industry).

The answer is cheese.

A life without cheese is unthinkable.

Brokenbiscuit Mon 24-Apr-17 23:33:15

In my opinion, eating less meat is good. Eating no meat is better. Being vegan is best.

Personally, I don't think I could sustain being vegan but I really admire those who do. I was a strict vegetarian for many years but lapsed a few years ago while living abroad, when I started to eat fish.

I know I can't lecture anyone on their food choices as being a pescatarian always feels a bit hypocritical to me. However, my meals are probably about 95% vegetarian and maybe 50% vegan. I figure that we all do the best we can!

Goldfishjane Mon 24-Apr-17 23:36:11

I am vegetarian partly because I don't feel well on meat
Ancestors from India, mostly vegan
I am mostly vegan but find it hard to have no eggs, I buy free range though
I haven't always been vegetarian but have had better health when I have been.
I have no issue with other people's food choices so I find anti veggie or anti vegan people puzzling
I don't talk about my food choices, I'm not inflicting them on anyone
I suppose part of the worry is that farmers and butchers will lose work? But I can't inflict food that I really dislike because of that. I don't eat sprouts either!

PopcornBits Mon 24-Apr-17 23:38:59

Not everybody who chooses vegan or vegetarian do it because of animal welfare, you know.

AssassinatedBeauty Mon 24-Apr-17 23:42:48

If you're vegetarian less animals are being used to feed you than if you're a meat eater. Being vegan means very few animals, if any, are being used to feed/clothe/etc you. That seems fairly straightforward to me. The point of being vegetarian is that you're not eating meat and so vastly reducing the number of animals killed in order to feed you.

I would like to be vegan but find it hard to adjust, so I'm still a vegetarian moving towards veganism.

puglife15 Mon 24-Apr-17 23:52:25

Whether animals are killed or not it's still about exploitation of them (eg taking milk, eggs and honey) and i think this is at the crux of vegan philosophy. If someone helped themselves to my breast milk without asking I'd be pretty pissed off.

Personally I restrict my intake of animal products massively because of the environmental​ impact and poor, unsustainable farming methods. I still wear leather shoes (because they last years) and eat vegan food 95% of the time.

It doesn't have to be so binary, you know.

klondikecookie Mon 24-Apr-17 23:55:47

I agree that there is a degree of inconsistency in being vegetarian, for ethical reasons, but not vegan.

Similarly, dietary vegans may unwittingly support the deaths or mistreatment on animals in industries other than the food industry.

But it's all about doing what you feel you can do to make some bit of a difference. I'm sure plenty of us make 'green' choices, like recycling, but still use non-environmentally friendly modes of transport, or use electricity that hasn't come from our own personal solar panels.

Doing something is generally better than doing nothing.

sweetkitty Mon 24-Apr-17 23:58:15

I'm vegetarian leaning towards veganism in fact the only thing I haven't quite given up is Galaxy chocolate blush

I hate the actual taste of meat always have even as a child, the texture and any grisly bits yuck.
The dairy industry is so cruel, male calves killed young, female cows made pregnant then their calves taken away so we can have their milk, then killed when their milk yield goes down.
Egg male chicks gassed or ground alive at birth, hens kept in horrid conditions laying an abnormal amount of eggs until they to are killed.
Fish killing the oceans by over fishing.
Animal agriculture biggest cause of climate change, forests cleared for cattle to graze, more crops grown to feed animals than people and greater use of water.

That's some of my reasons, I'm not a preachy veggie but if someone asks my reasons I tell them but they are my reasons.

BloodWorries Tue 25-Apr-17 00:00:22

Don't think vegans or vegetarians will have a problem with jam sandwiches (assuming bread is dairy/egg free many are IME) and a quick google search suggests party rings are vegan friendly too! So there you go, stick with jam sandwiches and party rings smile

AllRoadsLeadBackToRadley Tue 25-Apr-17 00:17:10

Relatively new (8wks) vegan here. My personal beliefs mirror pp's- milk, honey, etc, are to feed the offspring of the animal- not us.

I REALLY can't be doing with preacby people though. I'm a Christian, too- and, much as I don't bang on about God etc, I don't bang on about vegsnism either. (She says, at the end of her second paragraph 😂).

Each to their own! The veggies and pescatarians who limit their intake are still doing their bit for the environment! Even zmall cboices, like using ethical beautu peoducts, etc- it all adds up!

VoldemortsOffspring Tue 25-Apr-17 00:20:29

Re: party snacks- jam tarts, doritoes, tesco bacon frazzle copies (surprised me too!), hummus and veggie crudites, sausage rolls made from vegan sausages, oreos.

VoldemortsOffspring Tue 25-Apr-17 00:21:39

(Veganism has done nothing for my poor spelling though 😂)

fevversbetterout Tue 25-Apr-17 00:39:35

Hi Op, there are books and websites about vegetarianism and veganism. really easy to access. Surprised that you want info "So I can be less ignorant. Not to change my views". I'd suggest that if you don't want to change your views, you shouldn't become less ignorant. Just stay as you are.

WaxyBean Tue 25-Apr-17 07:21:01

Misses point of thread but jam sarnies and party rings are vegan.

WaxyBean Tue 25-Apr-17 07:21:38

Too late to the party here - iseebothers have said the same!

Innocent92 Tue 25-Apr-17 07:30:05

Personally, I made the connection between eating meat and eating a dead animal when I was around 6 and I did that on my own in a meat eating household.

However, it took me a long time to make the dairy connection and only when I read about it online aged around 21. If I had not stumbled across that information I wouldn't have made that connection on my own I don't think. I know that probably sounds strange but that is the reason I was vegetarian and not vegan for that amount of time.

claraschu Tue 25-Apr-17 07:39:38

Cutting down the meat and dairy that you eat and checking up on the ethics of the source of the meat is just part of living a considered life...

I have been vegetarian for about 40 years and have brought up 3 children who choose to still be veggie now that they are grown up. I eat eggs from our neighbours farm because I can see the hens running around in a huge field every day, and we use a little cheese and milk, also usually local and very free range. Occasionally I eat some cheese from an unknown source because life is a compromise, and I am not a very doctrinaire person. I know I am inconsistent, but guess that I am doing ok.

The real point I want to make is that one of the great things about being a grown-up in a democratic society is that you get to make your own choices. You don't have to be a Tory because your parents were Tories, a Baha'i because your parents were Baha'i, or a person who thinks vegetarians are naive idiots because your parents were butchers.

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