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Another politics question

(48 Posts)
AnotherPoliticsQuestion Fri 21-Apr-17 08:27:52

Very Sorry, I'm sure it's been asked but I literally don't have the time to look through the threads!

If labour get into power, will they have the power to stop Brexit?
I thought that now May had triggered article 50 that nothing could stop it?

somewhereovertherain Fri 21-Apr-17 08:28:45

Off course it can be stopped if their is the will.

TheGirlOnTheLanding Fri 21-Apr-17 08:31:08

Unfortunately, I don't think Labour have any intention of putting reversal of Brexit in their manifesto. Corbyn is not a fan of the EU. However, if there was a coalition of pro-EU parties (including breakaway Labour MPs) and they won a parliamentary majority then yes, Article 50 could theoretically be reversed as they would have a mandate to do that.

Orlantina Fri 21-Apr-17 08:38:44

Labour hasn't mentioned Brexit. Not at all. Not one little bit.

We are going to leave. It's HOW we leave that's important. Hard or soft. Theresa May seems to think that hard Brexit is what's wanted.

AnotherPoliticsQuestion Fri 21-Apr-17 08:44:11

What would a hard / soft Brexit entail though?

I would have thought that May pushing our agenda would be what we needed not dilly dallying around the issues and giving in to demands of other countries.

Sorry if that's not right, I'm really not up on my politics atm.

Orlantina Fri 21-Apr-17 08:48:37

I would have thought that May pushing our agenda would be what we needed not dilly dallying around the issues and giving in to demands of other countries

I am also sure that the EU wants to push their agenda and not give into the demands of the UK.

AnotherPoliticsQuestion Fri 21-Apr-17 08:52:12

@Orlantina
Yes I'm sure they do, is this going to mean that May will stand up to them and push back for what's good for the Uk whereas Corbyn will take a wishy washy approach and give in left and right, is that what it means by soft / hard approach?

Orlantina Fri 21-Apr-17 08:57:31

Yes I'm sure they do, is this going to mean that May will stand up to them and push back for what's good for the Uk

I'm hoping that what happens will be good for the UK and the EU. A win / win rather than being hard nosed. I'm worried that she'll cut off her nose to spite her face.

TheGirlOnTheLanding Fri 21-Apr-17 08:57:44

Ha! I fear the OP is entirely disingenuous. 'Not up on my politics atm' indeed, yet with such obvious biased language about the politicians involved, Have a biscuit - my first. I'm out.

MongerTruffle Fri 21-Apr-17 09:00:25

If labour get into power, will they have the power to stop Brexit?

They could, in theory, vote against the bill which repeals the European Communities Act 1972.

FenellaMaxwellsPony Fri 21-Apr-17 09:00:26

OP, think of it this way. It's like breaking up with a boyfriend with whom you will have to go on sharing a house. Knowing you have to carry on living together, which is the sensible way to break up with them- slap them in the face, call them a cunt and burn their clothes. Or try to be friends, work out some ground rules for living together, and offer to carry on sharing your joint DVD collection...?

AnotherPoliticsQuestion Fri 21-Apr-17 09:06:12

Not disingenuous or biased at all, just trying to get a grip on the facts.

That's a good way of putting it Fenella (love the username btw!)

AuntieStella Fri 21-Apr-17 09:07:36

No-one in UK can pledge more than 'we would engage in negotiations with EU to rescind our notice to leave'

Brexit cannot now be reversed without the consent of all the other member states.

"Is that what it means by soft / hard approach?"

No 'hard' Brexit is leaving cleanly and nigh on completely. 'Soft' is trying to remain by any other name by continuing in certain structures.

EU just wants exit cash from UK doesn't it? What else can it ask for, and think they mit stand a chance if getting?

They're nearly bust, Merckel is up for re-election later this year, they have no certainty, and fairly disunited, are having problems with Schengen and the movements of refugees and other migrants (and the list goes on)

OP: try the BBC background info pages for a quick way to a decent explanation. For example this in hard/soft: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37500140

Orlantina Fri 21-Apr-17 09:08:07

Or try to be friends, work out some ground rules for living together, and offer to carry on sharing your joint DVD collection

Now that would be an interesting AIBU grin

You can share my DVDs if I can use your Kindle. We'll both buy a cooker and share the cooking. But you're hungrier and bigger so maybe you should buy more food. Oh - and I'm a vegetarian but you're not - maybe we should have shared cooking days. What about chopping boards. Should we have joint house insurance?

But remember, I am splitting up with you. And we will have separate bedrooms. No, I don't love you.

AnotherPoliticsQuestion Fri 21-Apr-17 09:10:35

@AuntieStella Thank-you, that actually makes things clearer!

BoobleMcB Fri 21-Apr-17 09:15:52

May would negotiate for what is best for her, her party and the country's elite. Not what is best for the UK.

Corbyn would negotiate for people. For workers rights and protection, for equality and fairness.

This Tory government is destroying the NHS, the disabled, the elderly and the poor. Article 50 has been triggered, it's happening. May has fucked up and now wants to pass the mess on. Regardless of EU stance I think the Tories need to be gone before they do more damage

AnotherPoliticsQuestion Fri 21-Apr-17 09:22:56

I am very interested in the NHS side of things, can anyone tell me more about what the Tory government is doing to it now?

I've literally just read that Corbyn would renationalise the NHS but I didn't realise any of it wasn't and also it concerns me with all the promises he's making where the money will come from to make these promises reality or if he's just full of hot air.

Orlantina Fri 21-Apr-17 09:24:47

can anyone tell me more about what the Tory government is doing to it now

Lying. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie. Education cuts are real. Schools have less money to spend and cuts are real.

NHS is struggling to cope. Social care is under funded.

All May is doing is lying through her teeth.

AuntieStella Fri 21-Apr-17 09:25:44

"Corbyn would negotiate for people. For workers rights and protection, for equality and fairness."

If that's how he's saying he's approach negotiations with the EU, then we're royally stuffed if he gets in. Because those will become domestic issues, whether hard or soft Brexit; and if he clutters up EU negotiation time with issues irrelevant to Brexit then the chances for an adequate deal recede enormously.

HappydaysArehere Fri 21-Apr-17 09:26:52

If there is a u turn on Brexit now we will almost certainly have to join the Euro. Disaster as far as I am concerned. I voted remain but reversal would be humiliating and play into the EU's hands.

meditrina Fri 21-Apr-17 09:33:56

"can anyone tell me more about what the Tory government is doing to it now"

Not quite keeping up with the endless requirements for money. Not helped by PFI payments. Actually doing less privatisation than Blair did. But that's one of the weird features of any debate about hiw'safe' the NHS is. It's Labour who have introduced a lot of what is criticised as Tory nastiness (ditto university tuition fees, which was also a direct breach of manifesto commitment).

That's why, although the Tories are criticised for not spending enough (even when there really isn't any money to spend), Labour are not trusted.

Tories, until Cameron's omnishambles, were also more thorough in their policy making, which actually did help sound administration (even if you felt the policy was wrong, it was generally less damaging if competently carried out. And if competent, the policy agenda might not be universally supported, but at least there are fewer nonsenses of conflicting issues and avoidable admin cock ups).

May is showing some signs of returning to the previous levels of competency. That would also be a helpful background standard for complex international negotiations. Corbyn is untested on this, and last Labour administration was not good.

Two4One2017 Fri 21-Apr-17 09:34:29

The Labour party have not mentioned Brexit ....it is their achilles heel. They cannot appeal to the Northern Leave areas that are traditional Labour heartlands and to the Remain Islington set at the same time. They have decided NOT to put a second referendum in their manifesto (to the relief of the Lib Dems). They approved invoking Article 50.

When looking at the state of the NHS, do look at what the Blair/Brown Labour government did to finance all the shiny new hospitals they built....PFI (private finance initiative contracts) that we are now paying for.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/joel-benjamin/seven-things-everyone-should-know-about-private-finance-initiative

Then stop and think about how Corbyn and McDonnell are going to pay for the £500,000,000,000 spending spree they have got lined up (and is not costed)

Here is a good summary of the NHS issues:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38887694

AuntieStella Fri 21-Apr-17 09:36:38

"If there is a u turn on Brexit now we will almost certainly have to join the Euro. Disaster as far as I am concerned. I voted remain but reversal would be humiliating and play into the EU's hands."

Not so sure. If we seek to rejoin, we would lose all previous exemptions (Hello Schengen, Euro and VAT on food!) but if we don't reach the point of leaving (we're in formal notice period now) then I don't think they have to go.

noblegiraffe Fri 21-Apr-17 09:36:42

Lying. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie.

Yep. When the DfE is asked about the school funding crisis they always say 'school funding is at a record high'. But this completely ignores the increased costs that schools are facing which means that schools have less money for stuff like teachers. Teachers are being made redundant, as are support staff. Subjects are being cut and class sizes are being increased. Yet the government says funding is at a record high. 1 in 10 teachers quit last year and the DfE says teaching remains an attractive profession. They've just put millions more into an ad campaign to beg people to become teachers.

It means I don't believe a word they say about other stuff either. Listen to the people on the ground when they tell you what's going on. Doctors on strike, hospitals closing, shortage of nurses, waiting lists increased, elderly people stuck in hospital because there's no social care. That should give you a better idea.

Devorak Fri 21-Apr-17 09:37:29

@BoobleMcB

May has fucked up and now wants to pass the mess on

How did she fuck up? She wasn't in charge when the country voted in the referendum. She also thinks she can win. Most non-Tory voters say that this is a cynical bid to win a larger majority and have a personal mandate as opposed to passing the mess on.

Because of the EU stance (*@AnotherPolitisQuestion*) i.e. Brexit will happen (once set in motion, it cannot be stopped except by unanimous consent of all member states), I want May to be in charge of negotiations. The idea of any of the other incompetent buffoons leading them is frightening. Can you really imagine Corbyn managing it successfully? I can't. Corbyn couldn't negotiate his way through a doorway. People may dislike the Tories and honestly, if you're going through life looking for handouts then I can see why you'd want Labour in power but as Brexit will happen, it's time to grow up, stop saying things like 'I would never vote Tory' and consider what is best for current major issues: there is only 1 and it's negotiating with Brussels who want to punish the UK for leaving.

Labour were the government which began the destruction of the NHS. One of the largest organisations in the world has little to no bargaining power due to it being broken into trusts. These trusts are inefficient, middle-managed holes into which we can't keep pouring money.

Labour created a society where having a state-sponsored lifestyle was a perfectly viable option and the Conservatives have pointed out that it shouldn't be. I don't equate this to "destroying the poor". I know it isn't fashionable to say, but I want to work hard to support my family and I wish others would do the same, not expect endless support.

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