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Homophobia, transgenderism and giving blood.

(102 Posts)
BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 14:34:20

I had a thought, and it appears I'm right - though im really hoping someone tells me I am wrong!!

Rules for giving blood vary by sex and sexual orientation, as you probably know. Men who have sex with men are subject to different regulations to women who have sex with men.

Now for the dodgy bit. A transgender male who is legally a woman appears to be counted as a woman in these regulations. Even when they may have had no surgery, so are potentially having the same varieties of sex as homosexual males, with the same statistically increased biological risks. (Eg afaik the regulations for homosexual males are because there is an increased risk of STI transference in that 'group' - one that would still exist in a Mtt person who has sex with males)

So, it's not an anti trans thread before anyone complains about that, but should a Mtt person be subject to the same regulations as males or females? Or should the regulations for homosexual males be lowered in line with women so Mtt don't have to be included as males?

Or, do you think this is right as it is?

Aibu to think this appears peculiar and a tad homophobic (because once a male who has sex with men is legally considered a woman and therefore "heterosexual", they are subject to less strict regulations)

(Of course the whole thread is pointless if an NHS person can point me in the direction of different regulations to what I read smile )

Didyoumeantobesorude1 Fri 14-Apr-17 14:40:30

The rukes for women include not giving blood for twelve months after having sex with "a man who has ever had oral or anal sex with another man, even if they used a condom or other protective". So a Mtt identifying as a woman would still have to conform to strict rules.

Nairsmellsbad Fri 14-Apr-17 14:40:49

Where did you get this information? And are you a journalist fishing for a story?

Unpropergrammer Fri 14-Apr-17 14:41:55

A transgender woman (male to female) would not be having sex with gay men.

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 14:42:37

Do I write like a journalist? grin I have never been asked that one before!! grin grin

No, I'm not a journalist, I've been here a while and I'm unemployed grin

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 14:45:34

I couldn't find a direct answer in the NHS pages, but I found a FOI request that someone had shared. As I said, it could well be wrong, so I am happy to be corrected. smile

IvyLeagueUnderTheSea Fri 14-Apr-17 14:46:32

A transgender woman (male to female) would not be having sex with gay men.

Really? Have you asked all the gay men and transgender women?
What about a transgender woman who has only been living as a woman for the last couple of months?

JigglyTuff Fri 14-Apr-17 14:51:34

"A transgender woman (male to female) would not be having sex with gay men."

Tell that yo the transwoman I know who has had no surgery and is living with a man. Or is the boyfriend not gay now?

ZilphasHatpin Fri 14-Apr-17 14:53:43

A transgender woman (male to female) would not be having sex with gay men.

hmm how on earth could you know that? People's sex lives are not a permanently fixed thing. People can have sex with a wide variety of people who identify as different things at various different times in their lives!

The rules should be based on biological sex. So a biological male who has had sex with another biological male would fall under the same regulations as a man who has homosexual sex.

WooWooSister Fri 14-Apr-17 14:53:50

Unproper how can you know who they're having sex with? Sexual orientation isn't the same as 'gender identity'.
If they haven't had surgery and are attracted to men, then the only men having sex with them will be gay.
Heterosexual men don't tend to have sex with someone with a penis. (Although somehow they are not getting labelled 'transphobic' for that preference unlike lesbians who are getting hounded for their sexual preferences).
OP it seems like an odd oversight in the guidance. Either it's fine to take blood from a man (with a penis) who has sex with another man (with a penis)or it isn't. It would seem odd that self-identification was deemed to change the risk. Hopefully someone who works in the NHS can provide more clarity.

wittyUserNameHere Fri 14-Apr-17 14:54:21

@Didyoumeantobesorude1

The rukes for women include not giving blood for twelve months after having sex with "a man who has ever had oral or anal sex with another man, even if they used a condom or other protective"

And with that, another 'aren't transexuals terrible' thread fades away into nothingness.

It's always nice to have someone who knows what they're talking about make a comment.

Didyoumeantobesorude1 Fri 14-Apr-17 14:55:18

Thanks Witty :-)

UrsulaPandress Fri 14-Apr-17 15:03:33

I was thinking about the trans issue the other day, in relation to colour blindness, as I wrongly thought that only men could be colour blind. Having googled however it seems that women can have colour blindness related to blue. Only men have red/green colour blindness.

I suppose it could be an issue in choosing what to wear.

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:06:53

So in a Mtt-male couple, where the male has only had relationships prior to the 12 months with other Mtts?
They have therefore not had sex with "men" previously and would be okay to give blood themselves, as well as their transgender partner.

Surely that is homophobic?

ZilphasHatpin Fri 14-Apr-17 15:15:28

So in a Mtt-male couple, where the male has only had relationships prior to the 12 months with other Mtts

They're all male!

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:21:29

Exactly!

So manA has sex with 5 different Mtt over the course of five years - both the man-identifying-male and the woman-identifying-males are all fine to give blood.

ManB has sex with 5 different man-identifying-men over the course of five years - can't give blood

That's why (if it's right) I think it is homophobic

Didyoumeantobesorude1 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:21:41

Again, from the donor guidelines (UK):
"Statistically, men who have sex with men have a higher risk of acquiring blood-borne diseases, infections and viruses...
That is why we can’t collect blood from men who have had oral or anal sex with men, with or without protection, in the last 12 months.
This isn’t meant to be discriminatory. It’s not based on anyone’s sexual history or sexuality. It reflects statistical risks for the sexual behaviour that increases the risk of virus transmission."

The guidelines also acknowledge that some groups have protested about this issue, and so a working group was set up in April 2016 to look at it.

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:25:30

But a Mtt is considered a woman, so no one is "a man having oral or anal sex with a man"

Didyoumeantobesorude1 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:26:48

I was answering your concern that the rules for gay men are homophobic.

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:28:41

Here's the foi request I found

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/272941/response/676502/attach/html/3/JacobsSamRpy.pdf.html

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:30:20

I understand why the rules are different for men - I mentioned it in my OP. What I don't understand is how "identifying as a woman" removes these biological risks.

BeyondUser24601 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:31:11

As I said, I think it is homophobic because once a male who has sex with men is legally considered a woman and therefore "heterosexual", they are subject to less strict regulations

ZilphasHatpin Fri 14-Apr-17 15:33:06

They need to change their terminology and use male instead of man. I can't imagine they actually do happily take blood from a Mtt who has had sex with other Mtts in the specified time frame just because those people call themselves women.

Didyoumeantobesorude1 Fri 14-Apr-17 15:34:13

Which has nothing to do with the trans issue, can't you see that? You could equally well say that the rules for women are less strict and therefore homophobic.

DorisMcSweeney Fri 14-Apr-17 15:37:01

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

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