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I'm free lance but treated like rmployee

(19 Posts)
Wanderingidiot111 Wed 05-Apr-17 16:06:14

Client essentially is my boss. He's just had a humiliating go at me in front of everyone for leaving at 1, which is my agreed time, forgetting I'm not paid a salary.

Is free lancing just an excuse. To not pay properly?

JungleInTheRumble Wed 05-Apr-17 16:12:54

It can be. Someone more knowledgeable than me will be along I'm sure but depending on a load of different factors you could be deemed to be employed rather than self employed and therefore entitled to all the benefits that come with that e.g. holiday pay, sick leave, minimum wage etc.

Whether the guy is your boss or your client he sounds like a cock flowers

STFU Wed 05-Apr-17 16:15:57

I thought freelancing was an 'excuse' to charge an exorbitant fee in line with your skills. Kind of self-employed consultancy: the gig everyone wishes they had!

VestalVirgin Wed 05-Apr-17 16:16:05

Is free lancing just an excuse. To not pay properly?

Apparently, for him, it is.
If you only have that one client, in some countries that could get him in conflict with the law for pretending that you are freelance when in fact you are not.

Get legal advice.

Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds Wed 05-Apr-17 16:17:20

It's an excuse for him not to pay national insurance. Wonder if you can shop him for tax evasion?

Wanderingidiot111 Wed 05-Apr-17 16:17:22

Well I had one other client but they've not renewed contract with me. I will be looking for others.

Wanderingidiot111 Wed 05-Apr-17 16:18:17

I paid self employed tax for last tax year, although my business was a bit different then and I didn't have this shouting client.

BoredOfBiff Wed 05-Apr-17 16:27:00

Do you have a contract with him?

Wanderingidiot111 Wed 05-Apr-17 16:28:15

No contract I send invoice each month

LondonHuffyPuffy Wed 05-Apr-17 16:43:34

Wandering try using the HMRC Employment Status Indicator to determine whether or not you should be an employee or whether, for tax purposes, you can be deemed a freelancer. Read the blurb on that page first, then click the link at the bottom to go to the ESI.

If you carry all the risk and provide all of the equipment required to provide the services you provide for this company - e.g. you have your own IT equipment, phone, no company email address etc - and you can carry out the work in your own time with minimal direction, then it is possible you can be deemed self-employed.

If, however, they are simply paying you a freelance fee but you are to all intents and purposes carrying out your work tasks in the same way and under the same conditions as all actual employees, then you would probably be deemed an employee and can claim against the company for backdated pension, statutory holiday pay etc and the company could be fined for not paying Employer's NI.

There are a number of factors that need to be taken into account when determining a person's status but job title is rarely one of them. Freelance/ self-employed/ consultant etc often mean the same thing - that the person is not thought to be an employee. Companies frequently get this wrong though. There are a lot of maybes/ probablys in my post because it is not a clear cut issue.

As for the shouting thing, unless it's a really small company you should ask the HR department about the company's dignity at work or bullying/ harassment policy. Regardless of whether you are an employee or a contractor/ freelancer you have the right to be treated with dignity at work. I have never shouted at anyone at work (even if I felt like doing so), regardless of their status, and would expect to be disciplined if I did.

puddingpen Wed 05-Apr-17 17:03:05

Did you not remind him that it was the agreed time and you are not paid a salary?

DarklyDreamingDexter Wed 05-Apr-17 17:11:19

I'm in a similar boat. Horrible boss who conveniently forgets I'm freelance when it suits him. I hope you reminded him of your agreed hours? Maybe have a quiet word with him another time, rather than a shouty word in front of other people?

Willow2017 Wed 05-Apr-17 17:35:33

You should have waited until he had finished making a fool out of himself and then said "You seem to have forgotten that I am self employed and I finish at 1pm which was the hours you contracted me for" and watched him try to dig himself out the hole.

I would have a word next time you are in and tell him in no uncertain terms that you will not be spoken to like that in front of others again.

DressMeUpInStitches Wed 05-Apr-17 17:39:38

Did you remind him that it's your agreed leaving time?

I am freelance, I work for 3 different companies. I see myself as their employee when I'm there, & expect to abide by their rules such as working hours. I'd expect my client to be pissed off if I left earlier. But with you this is not the case.

UppityHumpty Wed 05-Apr-17 19:14:31

Freelancer in my industry means contractor and you either work up to the EU max hours directive or you get the sack. You get paid a high rate for a reason OP!

Wanderingidiot111 Wed 05-Apr-17 20:38:54

My rate is good but my hours chop and change and aren't guaranteeD week to week. He will ask me to come in for the morning at the agreed rate depending on what suits him, I understand that's how it goes and am very flexible but at the same time I can't be completely at his neck and call when it's quite spotty.

MyCatIsABiggerBastardThanYours Wed 05-Apr-17 20:42:25

I work freelance and I always have a contract that state my hours and rates. Plus the need for them to give me a months notice.

And I wouldn't stand for a client shouting at me.

Find new clients OP at hours that suit you and tell him to stick it!

Tryingtodomybest Wed 05-Apr-17 22:37:21

Have a look at recent cases.... uber and pimlico.... interesting reads, particularly the uber one in which the drivers were deemed employees on the basis of their lack of control over things like their hours

Madwoman5 Thu 06-Apr-17 00:35:02

Read about IR35. Armed with that have a private word as previous poster said, about NEVER speaking to you in front of colleagues like that again.

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