AIBU to think the NHS are runing themselves?

[UserSchmooser]

I think the NHS is a wonderful service and something the British should be proud of. I also think it's a money pit in dire need of pruning.

linky

There are 12,000 finance managers. £1.23Bn spend on compensation and legal fees.

The Sunderland NHS Foundation trust pays 66p per loo roll. Nearly double that of another NHS trust. Hip replacements were £650 for some trusts and £5,000 in another with "no evidence of a better outcome".

Despite having the collective buying power unimaginable to most companies, Labour destroyed this with its devolution.

It might seem fashionable to blame the Tories for every issue (as I observed in our staffroom today) but, that doesn't mean they are to blame.

AIBU thinking it was Labour who started the destruction and is now self-mutilation by the NHS to the tune of ?

[MichaelSheensNextDW]

Thanks for the Daily Mail link

"Fashionable" to blame the Tories for every issue? You do know they've been the government of the day since 2010? You'd expect them to have changed things they didn't like since then.

YABU and a Tory goader.

[UserSchmooser]

You're welcome I felt it more readable than the enormous report they based the article on.

I'd say the Tories are changing things they don't like.

I think the fact you added 'Tory' into your last line suggests the issue is not what's right or wrong or necessary, simply that is fashionable to look down upon the majority of the voting public, rather than put forwards any argument of substance as to why their political ideas may be wrong.

You can call something goady when you don't have a more intelligent response, but I'm genuinely interested.

[mirime]

I'd say it was the previous Tory government that started the destruction, but there you go. It's also reasonable to argue that Wales only voted for devolution because of that Tory government.

[UserSchmooser]

Not devolution into trusts in 2002 mirime?

[Softkitty2]

I think the whole NHS need to be centralised.. As in maybe one supplier of certain products nationwide, it has to be a public bidding process as to who gets the contract and must be competetive...

Say equipment being used in the wards like syringes, gloves, catheters etc are all the same in every trust as long as its of a certain standard.

And yes the NHS has more managers and office workers (non clinical) staff than clinical staff..

The mind boggles it's a hospital.

[brownmouse]

12,000 finance managers means they each manage a million pounds.

You are right - they need many more (as every study has shown)

[ExplodedCloud]

The Conservatives have been running the NHS for most of the last 40 years.
It was in plenty of trouble long before 1997.

[Athrawes]

A million pounds to manage. Any half decent finance manager could manage 50 times that.

[brownmouse]

if you still think the NHS has more managers than clinical staff please look up Any study which disproves this:
Eg
www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/fact-or-fiction-the-nhs-has-too-many-managers#what-we-know

[ExplodedCloud]

The NHS should be taken out of politics. Restructuring, dogma and hidden agendas of the government of the day mean it's impossible to make concrete long term plans. A governing body made up of clinical and business people should be making decisions, not politicians.

[scaryteacher]

MichaelSheen "Fashionable" to blame the Tories for every issue? You do know they've been the government of the day since 2010? You'd expect them to have changed things they didn't like since then.

I think part of the the problem might be the PFIs much loved of Gordon Brown, where theNHS Trusts are tied into contracts for decades. I think the current govt should bite the bullet and buy the Trusts out of the PFIs which do swallow an enormous amount of money in some cases, and then see how the NHS copes.

I also think that we need to have a grown up discussion about what the NHS should and shouldn't do in terms of treatment etc. Do we need to look at a Belgian or Canadian model for example? It isn't a binary solution of the NHS or the American model, there are other successful examples out there.

We also need to tackle health tourism, or even just those who need care when they are on holiday. Again, if the NHS chased up users and billed them, then that would help. Other countries do this (including Belgium), the bill got to UK before my Mum did.

It's not being a goady Tory fucker to ask these questions; it's about how we can improve the service we have within a given budget, rather than it being a bottomless pit.

[Owllady]

I agree with softkitty.
If they want to run it like a business then the management needs to be centralised.
There needs more clinical staff on the wards doing the basic care too.
I had an operation in a private hospital in January (through the nhs but they thought I had uterine cancer so I was fast tracked, thank you GP) and on the ward which was post theatre recovery, rooms and pig pens, they had a couple of nurses but ALOT of clinical assistants and I don't know why normal hospitals don't do this? Surely wards need clinical assistants. In the old days there were loads of auxiliary nurses (their old name)

I used to love the belted nurses too. Red, yellow, green, blue, dark blue I've spent far too much time in hospital in my life :(

[AnitaPallenbergsKnees]

Thank Gordon Brown for the mess our nhs is in and all the new schools built using PFI.
Our great great grandchildren will still be paying for it after we are long gone arguing about tory v labour

[alltouchedout]

I think the NHS is being cynically ruined by people whose financial interests are best served by its collapse.
Most of them are Tories, some of them aren't.

[Titsywoo]

Of the dealings I have had with NHS trusts they tend to spend money like it's going out of fashion. Honestly if you could see some of it you'd be disgusted. So yes OP I agree - YADNBU.

[Owllady]

Yes Anita, why are we arguing Tory v Labour? Why not take politics out of it and concentrate on saving the NHS?
We all need it. Even Jeremy Cunt.

[unicornsIlovethem]

PFI was invented by John major's government, used on a vast scale by Gordon brown and still used by George Osborne as a neat way to get investment going without hurting the governments balance sheet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatefinancee_initiative

PFI is a problem but not a party political one as they're all at it. Like war, and not building houses.