To think Macduff was born from a woman who had a C section

[armpitz]

Which is hardly the same as not being born from a woman?

What the chuff does Macbeth mean then ?

Have always wondered.

[ExitPursuedByUser54321]

Erm. Obviously a c section.

And ......

[ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged]

It's a plot device, 'tis all.

[BertrandRussell]

"From my mother's womb untimely ript"

It was a while ago! Even now there are dickheads who say that having a c section is not giving birth properly.

[armpitz]

Yes but it is 'none of woman born shall harm Macbeth.'

Then Macduff appears and 'was from his mothers womb untimely ripped.'

And Macbeth shits himself.

But she's still a woman!

[Awwlookatmybabyspider]

To quote Manuel.
"Que".
Or Mowgli. Gee, I don't even know what you're talking about.

[SexTrainGlue]

It does mean CS, but back then it was seriously rare because the mother did not survive.

So it means she died in labour and her corpse was ripped open in last-ditch effort to save the infant.

[armpitz]

Hmm, I'd still argue she was female, though. The only thing I can think of is that 'woman' was synonymous with 'vagina', a bit like manhood and penis.

[lottiegarbanzo]

She's a woman but he wasn't 'born' he was ripped out.

Don't think c-section was a standard way of being born, at the time.

[armpitz]

Ah so the emphasis is on 'born' rather than 'woman.' Nice one, Lottie

[UnmentionedElephantDildo]

Yes, she was a woman.

But she did not give birth to him because she was (probably) dead by that point.

And it was deliberately tricksy language as it was needed as a plot device. The trick being about 'born' not about there being a woman.

[chastenedButStillSmiling]

The emphasis was definitely on the "ripped out". This isn't Shakespeare being all transgender! It's made very obvious that McB can only be killed by someone who isn't born vaginally. He thinks this makes him immortal. Then he finds out that Macduff was c'section, and then realizes his demise just before it happens.

(I'm not anti-trans! I just did this play in school and know it well! I've also acted in it [am-dram, I'm not Ian McKellen!])

[armpitz]

I bet you are IAN!

This all makes sense to me now. I was most confused thinking 'but even if she's dead, she's a woman' but taking the emphasis from woman to born changes all that. No wonder Macbeth was fooled.

[TinfoilHattie]

Agree that it's nothing to do with trans.

Witches say to Macbeth - you only have to worry about a man who wasn't born from a woman.

Macbeth - don't need to worry then as that's a biological impossibility.

Witches (later on for dramatic conclusion): a-ha! Macduff was "ripped from the womb" so wasn't born!!

Same as Dunsinane Wood walking - the trees didn't move, it was soldiers with branches on their heads. All tricky plot devices to heighten tension.

[user1490123259]

he wasn't born of a living woman, he was cut from a corpse.

[Catgirl83]

As chastened said. The witches' predictions all lead Macbeth to believe he can't be beaten because of the improbability of them.

[armpitz]

See it's a good thing I wasn't living then. They'd have fooled me, too. I would have been as Macbeth was 'oh, ha! No one can hurt ME, then!'

[PickAChew]

It's not the newest of theories.

Studied Macbeth back in the 80s.

[armpitz]

No, but it has mildly mystified me for many days :)

[TeslasDeathRay]

What Lottie said. C-sections were mainly used to save the baby so they could baptise them a hurry in case they died, or if the mother had already passed.

[DistanceCall]

Saint Raymond Nonnatus was so called because he was also "non-born".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Nonnatus

It's nothing new. Only now women can actually survive the procedure.

[chastenedButStillSmiling]

Please call me Sir Ian

(reference to him being in "Extras". One of the funniest episodes EVER because he's so left-wing!)

[JovialNickname]

"No man of woman born shall harm Macbeth"

Of course it is a plot device.... Macduff was from his mother's womb "untimely ripp'd" ie yes a cesarean (apologies for poor spelling)

It is from another time and therefore does not stand up to scrutiny by today's standards (as in of course he was born of woman)

It is simply an example of the self deceit Macbeth employs whilst engaging in his "o'er vaulting ambition" - that which is truth is hidden from him, through his own volition.

(The quotes may be - and are likely - wrong as I have written them from memory)

[Sittinginthesun]

I think Henry VIII's 3rd wife, Jane Seymour, die in similar circumstances? I'm sure she had a c section, and died as a result?

[Sittinginthesun]

Sorry, obviously not Shakespeare, but I always thought it must have been a relatively common event for Shakespeare to use it as a plot device.

[bigmack]

The witches were trolling Macbeth.