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To not be surprised that the so-called terrorist had killing urges for a long time

(119 Posts)
Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 08:31:22

London attacker Khalid Masood: how hard-drinking, drug-taking village thug sought help over his urges to kill

I've just seen these headlines and just really need to post here after the discussion about this man on the Katie Hopkins thread.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/london-attacker-khalid-masood-hard-drinking-drug-taking-village/

Yes, terrorism is a problem, radical Islamic terrorism is a problem, as is radical white supremacist terrorism and violence.

But how many of these disturbed men are using such groups as excuses?
Is it a problem with these men or with those inciting them?

And if it's those inciting them, what's the difference between angry radical imams and ISIS calls for actions, and people spouting minority hate online or calling for military action that doesn't give a shit about civilians?

Coalition air strikes 'kill more than 200 people' in Mosul

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/23/coalition-air-strikes-kill-100-civilians-one-building-mosul/

I may be a bit angry with some twats that have gone on Fox, yes.

Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 08:32:26

See if the links work now

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/london-attacker-khalid-masood-hard-drinking-drug-taking-village/

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/23/coalition-air-strikes-kill-100-civilians-one-building-mosul/

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot Sat 25-Mar-17 08:38:44

What makes someone vulnerable to radicalisation is something that's studied quite a lot.

There was another thread looking at his age (becuse he's right at the top of the age range if those who carry out attacks).

It's quite a long groooming process, isn't it? And presumably only works on some people.

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 08:39:42

There are many shootings in the USA and elsewhere where people with issues take out their anger on others. This guy seems to have been inspired by Islamist terrorists but at the same time, there are people who murder others in the name / influenced by other causes and beliefs.

Two sides of the same coin. People get inspired to act - what makes them the type of person who wants to carry out a crime on innocent people.

lljkk Sat 25-Mar-17 08:43:33

yabu to link to anything Katie Hopkins said <shudder>

Yeah he seems like an impulsive violent guy. No surprises that most terrorists have a similar background. IRA was full of them.

The weird part is he was popular & ordinary all the way thru school. How did an ordinary guy turn into a lifelong thug?

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 08:48:10

I think Hopkins and Farage have been shown up for the lack of knowledge they have on this.

This person was NOT an immigrant.
This person was not born Muslim.
He did have a criminal record.

It's got nothing to do with integration.
He did have a history of violence.

Everything they say about this goes against the reality. I bet there are many people who 'follow' Hopkins and Farage have similar backgrounds and a history of violence and exclusion.

Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 09:05:36

It's quite a long groooming process, isn't it? And presumably only works on some people.

That's my point. He wasn't groomed as such. He already had those urges. He just stumbled on something that made him feel justified in carrying them out.

As many other violent men, for all sorts of reasons.

Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 09:06:54

yabu to link to anything Katie Hopkins said <shudder>

I didn't. grin Just mentioned her name.
The links are not about her.

RJnomore1 Sat 25-Mar-17 09:10:01

Yes I was thinking about this yesterday even before the killing urges were reported. A man with a long history of violent offences commits a violent offence. What a shocker. It's not got anything to do with religion orcradicalisation really - as someone else said it's just finding more justification to act out the way you do. Confirmation bias really.

I don't know where that leaves us in thinking about the psychology of radicalisation?

Thistledew Sat 25-Mar-17 09:12:23

And why is it (almost) always men?

Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 09:12:39

I saw that thread about the age yesterday and forgot it when I posted this.

The KH thread was already full.

The thing is this never felt like your typical terrorist attack to me. More like a man on a murderous rampage.

How can these men be identified and even helped? confused

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 09:12:52

as someone else said it's just finding more justification to act out the way you do

It's not like there are many people in many countries who need a 'cause' to justify their violence.

So much violence done in the name of a cause or a belief. Or the belief being used to justify the violence.

Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 09:14:23

But, it ends up being a case if

Man kills many and happens to be Muslim - terrorist
Man kills many and is white - mad

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 09:16:52

Man kills many and is white - mad

Look at the words used when a shooting happens in a high school.

Look at the reaction.

blubberball Sat 25-Mar-17 09:18:58

In some ways, it's remarkable that this sort of thing doesn't happen more often. Thank goodness it doesn't. But there must be thousands of angry and disturbed people behind the wheel every day. They do not test a person's psyche when selling them a car, or a knife. I don't know what the answer is. Mental health is definitely something that needs to be taken more seriously in this country. We are just counting on people not losing their shit every day.

Lweji Sat 25-Mar-17 09:24:09

We are just counting on people not losing their shit every day.

Pretty much.

But, regardless, we can't live in fear of this all the time, nor should we blame entire groups when it does.

Where is the call for better mental health?
But there was, immediately, for immigration control from some quarters. sad

lljkk Sat 25-Mar-17 09:28:05

Was it drugs... did getting into drugs spark a kind of violent chronic mental illness in him, in his late adolescent brain? I think that fits with the bits of info I know. Drugs to blame, not religion, race or whatever else. Why didn't he stay in Saudi, I wonder?

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 09:45:16

But there was, immediately, for immigration control from some quarters

But a lack of discussion and outrage from the same people when other people commit acts of violence and who seem to have been driven to that act by something.

yellow6 Sat 25-Mar-17 10:37:21

by definition he was a Muslim terrorist anyone who denies that is in wrong

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 10:39:07

by definition he was a Muslim terrorist anyone who denies that is in wrong

He was male.
He was in his 50s.
He used to be a teacher.
He came from Kent.
He had a criminal record.

Why have you focused on the Muslim element?

MrsTwix Sat 25-Mar-17 10:40:38

He was a Fundamentalist Islamist terrorist. He wasn't a proper Muslim. They don't go killing people you know.

MorrisZapp Sat 25-Mar-17 10:43:10

Do you also apply the 'random violent man' theory to the murderer of MP Jo Cox? Or was there any more to that at all?

yellow6 Sat 25-Mar-17 10:43:32

because the op said so called implying that he wasnt? why did they do that? and mrs twix no true Scotsman fallacy he called himself a Muslim therefore hes a Muslim simple or do people on this thread not want facts

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 10:47:17

Do you also apply the 'random violent man' theory to the murderer of MP Jo Cox

I think that the person who murdered Jo Cox was 'inspired' in the same way that the person who murdered all these people were. So much anger in them, hate at people, reading about how 'people like them' are being ignored, mistreated, how society hates them, how other people who they hate are gaining power etc etc - then the anger just builds up and they use all the stuff they have heard and been exposed to carry out awful attacks.

People like Hopkins and Farage help fuel this anger.

egosumquisum1 Sat 25-Mar-17 10:49:58

Have people heard of 'dog whistle' tactics? When people like Farage and Hopkins use the word 'Muslim', they aren't innocently saying this was a Muslim who carried out the attack.

They are 'dog whistling' to their supporters who are being groomed to associate such awful attacks with the Muslim community.

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