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Legacy - Martin McGuinness

(112 Posts)
FairytalesAreBullshit Wed 22-Mar-17 21:22:41

I was listening to Tony Blair and his thoughts on Martin McGuinness, who died yesterday after suffering from cancer I believe. Tony Blair focussed on the triumphs of the peace process, the hard work he put in for over 20 years to achieve peace, plus bringing people together.

Sky chose an alternative way to report his death, with the daughter of her 72 year old mother caught up in the Warrington bombings. The presenter wanted it to be as emotive as possible, they were a few steps away from saying he should burn in hell.

Others chose to show a gathering in West Belfast and other places, including Scotland, where people came out to pay their respects.

It's had me thinking all day, if a person does bad, then dedicates their life to doing good. What should their legacy be?

He worked until a few months before his death, which shows that he wanted to fight on right to the end. I know his departure prompted another election, as there were things that he felt were being ignored like using the Irish language to name one. (Sorry I'm a politics and economics geek)

I grew up during the time prior to the peace process, so know what happened from what was reported on TV and in papers. My parents were strict about where we could go in fear of us getting caught up in something.

Boulshired Wed 22-Mar-17 21:25:06

Not sure today is the best day for this discussion.

ZilphasHatpin Wed 22-Mar-17 21:26:41

if a person does bad, then dedicates their life to doing good. What should their legacy be?

Surely all of it is his legacy. For those that suffered at his hands they deserve to have that legacy acknowledged and remembered. For those who have benefitted from the peace he forged (most of us I would imagine) that is important to build on. But the bad stuff should never be forgotten. To forget it means we risk allowing it to happen again.

BusyBeez99 Wed 22-Mar-17 21:29:45

Once a terrorist.........

StillDrivingMeBonkers Wed 22-Mar-17 21:31:09

Ask Sandra Collins family, 'eh?

PlayOnWurtz Wed 22-Mar-17 21:35:09

He had a rare condition called amyloidosis

He was also a violent terrorist.

purits Wed 22-Mar-17 21:40:56

Tony Blair focussed on the triumphs of the peace process

Well there's a surprise. Not.

quencher Wed 22-Mar-17 21:41:35

You shouldn't be able to pick and choose history. It should be told the way it happened.
By focusing on the good, it becomes similar to the way history is always told. By the winner or what people thought or think it's best to remember in history.
It should not be that way. The people who suffered should be able to tell their stories too.

By choosing the good, it's not very different to people going to funerals and praising the deceased for how wonderful they were. When in actual fact, part of their life or previous life was not that great from the moral perspective.

KC225 Wed 22-Mar-17 21:42:45

This post from Gavin Martin yesterday.

Course I'm not in anyway bitter.
But couldn't help notice that Martin McGuinness died in Altnagelvin hospital which was where my severely handicapped brother died aged 19 in 1975.
After Paul's birth my mother got a letter from the local Elim Pentecostalists in Castlereagh explaining how his condition was a consequence of her sins earlier in life. My father set up MENCAPNI after Paul was born and was collecting in a Belfast pub one day, with the estranged brother of an emerging republican figurehead, when they encountered said figure.

Martin McGuinness, because it was he, made clear his thoughts on what should happen to handicapped children, such as my brother and the child of my fathers charity collecting associate. He warned my father to take his rattling tin out of the pub or he'd get a bullet in the head.

My sister recalls that Martin said children like our brother paul should be gassed.
The man collecting with dad had to drag him out,as he was ready to punch the poisonous creep.

Dad called him a fucking fascist,which is spot-on, preaching pure Mengele hate.
In recent years I'd often asked Martin if he'd changed his views on handicapped children.

No reply was forthcoming though a similar inquiry to Gerry he hasn't gone away you know Adams got me blocked on Twitter.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of things said about Martin, just thought I'd add my own story into the micks (and prods) that come with his passing.

LaurieMarlow Wed 22-Mar-17 21:43:57

Difficult. And I speak as a Northern Irish catholic.

The man had a lot of blood on his hands. I don't think that should ever be forgotten.

mummabearfoyrbabybears Wed 22-Mar-17 21:46:39

There will always be people who can forgive and forget. Who find the good where others see only horror. Throughout history there have been people who have commuted terrible acts but, in later life, have somehow redeemed themselves and been forgiven. Should we forgive? Yes maybe we should. 'Can we' is a whole separate issue. Nelson Mandela seems to be another terrorist who turned hero. But both killed many, many people and that is a fact that no one can change. As today has shown there is far too much death in the world. RIP London2017.

Scabetty Wed 22-Mar-17 21:46:40

I am not sure what his legacy should be, time will decide. I often wonder about how one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist to some and a hero to others.

Littlecaf Wed 22-Mar-17 21:47:05

I feel conflicted by his death and the media reporting of it. He was a terrorist but the point of the Northern Irish peace process is that it's a process towards a solution for Northern Ireland by the people of Northern Ireland and than includes those whom some consider terrorists or former terrorists. It is doesn't include and even be lead by people of both sides like him, who is it for and will it be successful. He and those like him of both sides are in the best position to halt sectarianism for the region.

herewegoagainwiththissh1t Wed 22-Mar-17 21:49:23

Martin would say that the war chose him.. 1960's Derry was an incredibly tough place for Catholics, hence the civil rights movement. We didn't have the same employment/ housing rights as our Protestant neighbours.
Lord craigavon said that the north was 'a Protestant state for a Protestant people'
We were second class citizens treated like dirt by the British soldiers and RUC.
The IRA of the 60's and 70's was a response to this. They had the full support of the nationalist / republican people in the early days. It was a war. He was not a terrorist in the modern day sense. He was a freedom fighter. Trying to free his people from
British oppression.
The war got dirty.
Mcguiness turned away from the armature and towards the ballot box... he did so very courageously and at the risk of his own life
He reached out to Ian paisley and the two showed immense and admirable maturity in the working partnership they formed. Both men rose above their differences and put the people of the north first. I will be eternally grateful to these two for what they have done for our future.
MMG showed intense leadership and used his wit and charm to engage world leaders, popes, presidents, prime ministers... even HM The queen!!!
Martins legacy should be that of a peace maker. An amazing, courageous man who fought for what was right for the neoprene of Ireland.
RIP mo chara. We will never see the like of him again!

LaurieMarlow Wed 22-Mar-17 21:52:30

The reason he was the best person to halt sectarianism was because he was the fucking powerhouse behind it in the first place. So I'm not particularly won over by that argument.

I'd like to see a lot more credit given to people like John Hume, who didn't dirty their hands in the first place.

Ethylred Wed 22-Mar-17 21:52:44

There are people (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot...) whose death leaves the world a better place. Martin McGuiness, in a much smaller way, was one of those.

GladAllOver Wed 22-Mar-17 21:52:53

Why should anyone praise him for stopping the violence? He was one of the ringleaders who started it the first place and caused all those innocent people to die.

LaurieMarlow Wed 22-Mar-17 21:54:14

Plenty of Catholics in similar positions fought British oppression without stooping to murder herewegoagain

Fact.

Willyoujustbequiet Wed 22-Mar-17 21:54:16

He's a mass murderer.

I only hope his death brought some comfort/closure to the families he helped destroy.

MycatsaPirate Wed 22-Mar-17 21:54:50

I can't have any praise for a man who masterminded bombings which killed innocents, both in NI and the British Mainland. Too many died. Too many injured.

But it's ok because eventually he stopped killing people?

Alrighty then.

ImFuckingSpartacus Wed 22-Mar-17 21:55:30

This is going to be another thread full of bullshit opinions from idiots who don't know the first thing about it.

BoneyBackJefferson Wed 22-Mar-17 21:56:36

I'm not sure that it can be stated that he worked hard for the peace process, it is just something that coincided with working for his own aims.

FellOutOfBed2wice Wed 22-Mar-17 21:57:43

I don't know enough about this to comment but I'm interested as I've been wondering similar today and yesterday.

Tapandgo Wed 22-Mar-17 22:00:06

There can be no justification when innocent lives are taken for 'a cause' - but it is foolish to ignore background factors that might explain why people turn to extremism.
He grew up schooled in and very familiar with a corrupt system that was very biased against Catholic/republican people in NI and were civil rights were not respected. Many turned to violence out of frustration that legal avenues to achieve civil rights (and/or a united Ireland) were frustrated at every turn. Either way he made his choice - he chose violence and many innocent lives were lost.
There was undoubtedly blood on his hands as there was blood on the hands of the late Ian Paisley who inspired and certainly did not condemn Unionist terrorists.
However, the fact that both he and Paisley eventually same together to bring peace to that still troubled area cannot be ignored, and should be commended. The late 'conversion to peace' doesn't obliterate what went before, but it needs to be recognised.
I don't believe the 'once a terrorist, always a terrorist' thing...........Nelson Mandela was once condemned as a terrorist.........amongst others.
Historic legacies can never be judged accurately close to events............it take years to get secret documents unlocked to shed light into dark corners.

GladAllOver Wed 22-Mar-17 22:03:42

This is going to be another thread full of bullshit opinions from idiots who don't know the first thing about it.

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