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To think DS's school don't understand discipline?

(151 Posts)
mumonashoestring Wed 22-Mar-17 19:58:59

DS is 5 and I will freely admit can be a ratbag if overtired or coming down with something BUT at home he understands that he does as he's told or there are consequences (time out, loss of TV or tablet time, loss of a treat for example). Recently DH has been called a couple of times to pick DS up during the school day and bring him home early because he's been slapping or kicking, or running away from staff.

After a couple of incidents of either being told about this behaviour at home time or being asked to pick him up, we were properly clear with him at home that hitting is unacceptable, you need to do as the teachers ask etc. and he had a couple of evenings of no cartoons, no story at bedtime etc. However, talking to him about why he's been so naughty at school he says he's confused - and why? Turns out he's being told that he can't hit, but another child in the class is hitting him and not being disciplined for it - DH checked with one of the teaching assistants and they don't use the word naughty, or unacceptable, or actually do anything to provide a consequence for poor behaviour. Literally all they have is a happy sun or a sad cloud, and DS has recently been sent home with DH being told he's been hitting, but having been put in the happy sun during the day confused My usually happy little boy is quite obviously worried after the last couple of weeks and I'm getting quite cross with the school seemingly having no policy on discipline but expecting the parents to be able to magically convince kids to do as we say, not as the teachers allow them to do...

Waitingonasmile Wed 22-Mar-17 20:03:34

Surely if the other child is also hitting they are also picked up early/sent home? That would mean they are also being punished!

harderandharder2breathe Wed 22-Mar-17 20:06:10

Obviously him hitting teachers is not ok. But equally him getting hit is not ok either. Small children do get frustrated and hit each other, but the adults need to be clear that it's not ok, whether parents or teachers.

I get that "naughty" is seen as a dirty word and it's wrong to label children but you can still tell a child that what they're doing is not acceptable and tell them what is acceptable behaviour.

Even if the child hitting your DS has additional needs and finds it harder than his peers, the school need to protect your DS from getting hit.

Spurtle Wed 22-Mar-17 20:06:39

Your son's behaviour is beyond the behaviour of an average 5 year old in a classroom. It's very easy to blame the school though, isn't it?
As for the other child, of course the school isn't discussing them or how they're handled with you.

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:07:48

They can't send children home unless the child is formally excluded.

You need to meet with the Headteacher if it has got to 'sending home' and ask what exactly is going on. Are they suggesting DS has a behavioural problem that needs investigating? What is their strategy for dealing with the behaviour. Tbh I think what the other child does is irrelevant, concentrate on your own.

lavenderandrose Wed 22-Mar-17 20:10:22

To be fair what you describe is pretty awful behaviour, and I am often supportive of parents finding schools hard to negotiate.

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:11:07

Ah ok sorry he's hitting your child. hmm re spurtle 5 yos do hit you know they are rather tiny children.

mumonashoestring Wed 22-Mar-17 20:11:39

"Surely if the other child is also hitting they are also picked up early/sent home? That would mean they are also being punished!"

Nope. Possibly because he's one of about 5 kids with a working single mum and DH is a SAHD and therefore it's easier to send DS home, IDK.

Spurtle it's not so much that it's easier to blame them (thanks for the PA hint about lazy parenting though), I genuinely don't know how we're supposed to make it clear that he can't do something we're not there to see him do (never does it at home) when that doesn't seem to be backed up in any way by what he's hearing at school.

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:12:19

To be fair what you describe is pretty awful behaviour, and I am often supportive of parents finding schools hard to negotiate.

Wow the child is 5 are you for real? sad. Seemingly you've made adulthood without learning empathy...!

amy85 Wed 22-Mar-17 20:13:21

Sorry but stop looking for excuses for his behaviour! He knows he shouldn't hit! It doesn't matter what his peer is doing he knows he shouldn't do it but then chooses too anyway

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:13:40

it's easier to send DS home

You need to stop them doing this it is an illegal exclusion.

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:14:33

Sorry but stop looking for excuses for his behaviour! He knows he shouldn't hit! It doesn't matter what his peer is doing he knows he shouldn't do it but then chooses too anyway

Did you miss that he is 5 years old....?

lavenderandrose Wed 22-Mar-17 20:14:52

It's nothing to do with not having empathy. A five year old should know not to hit, kick or run away from teachers.

Now if there are special needs there that if different but it really shouldn't need explicitly stating "don't kick the teacher."

Coconut0il Wed 22-Mar-17 20:16:09

Is your DS hitting other children or the staff? You need to arrange a meeting with the school. Regardless of what other children are doing you know this is unacceptable and you need to work with the school to sort this out. They can't just send him home. Strategies, rewards and consequences need to be put in place.

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:16:44

No lavender they are tiny tiny children who do not always think before they act.

We have no idea if he has additional needs because the school are illegally sending him home rather than trying to formulate a plan with the OP and/ or investigating further.

mumonashoestring Wed 22-Mar-17 20:18:11

I was unclear on the kicking, he's kicked things before when frustrated but never kicked a child or teacher.

Do 5 year olds really understand turn the other cheek? I find it quite hard to believe that if a child has someone consistently hitting them in a particular environment they don't start to think it's okay to hit in that environment.

lavenderandrose Wed 22-Mar-17 20:18:11

Not that tiny, increasingly.

The three year olds I have understand "we keep our hands and feet and feelings to ourselves."

witsender Wed 22-Mar-17 20:18:57

Being asked to pick your child up early seems like a pretty clear message tbh.

Their methods seem entirely age appropriate to me, I would be expecting them to be working through issues and trying to get to the bottom of them more than traditional ideas of discipline. The bloody happy sun and sad cloud normally seems to shame kids into 'appropriate' behaviour sooner or later. sad

Increasinglymiddleaged Wed 22-Mar-17 20:19:28

5 is a tiny child lavender. Whether you happen to know a few perfect 3 yos or not.

lavenderandrose Wed 22-Mar-17 20:20:52

OP, it's probably the running away from the teachers that's doing it. IME schools get quite overwrought when a situation is or could be outside of their control. A school is quite limited in what they can do regarding touching a child: in other words they can't physically manhandle him into a classroom or place of safety.

I am sympathetic to the kicking and hitting back. But I do think it's generally more conducive to focus on how you can help your child than someone else's. Schools aren't always totally consistent: it's best to get used to that now.

amy85 Wed 22-Mar-17 20:21:05

No I didn't miss that he was 5...He is perfectly capable at 5 to know that we don't hit people....As 5 year olds are little and do get frustrated so the odd hit is to be expected/can be excused but that isn't the case here...He is hitting and kicking regularly and running away from staff

By all means op ask for a meeting with the school to discuss his behaviour and to come up with strategies you can all use to help your lo but don't go in blaming the school

mumonashoestring Wed 22-Mar-17 20:21:12

You need to stop them doing this it is an illegal exclusion

I had a feeling that was the case. They are massively underesourced, I do know that, and their intake of SN kids has increased hugely over the past year. We have got the ball rolling with getting DS assessed for behavioural issues including ASD but with no support or clear guidance from the school.

IamFriedSpam Wed 22-Mar-17 20:22:40

Sorry but stop looking for excuses for his behaviour! He knows he shouldn't hit! It doesn't matter what his peer is doing he knows he shouldn't do it but then chooses too anyway

That's a monumentally useless reply. What do you want OP to do? She obviously has consequences in place for bad behaviour at home but she isn't actually in school so can't control her son's behaviour there.

He's 5, having poor impulse control and not being very good at dealing with frustration is completely within the normal range of five year old behaviour. At that age they need an immediate consequence for unacceptable behaviour and help finding appropriate ways to deal with frustration. The school need to have a behaviour policy.

It's completely ridiculous to say "you're the parents you make sure your kids behave". Of course most parents will support the school and try to encourage good behaviour but the school needs to deal with the behaviour that happens there.

CurlyhairedAssassin Wed 22-Mar-17 20:23:44

In my experience schools don't automatically tell parents of every single discipline problem. They would be there all day. If they have taken you aside and told you there is a problem then you should realise that there is actually a quite major problem here.

wonderingsoul Wed 22-Mar-17 20:25:01

I dont think sending home a 5 year old because he is kicking things is very useful.

Time out. Talkimg, loss of play.

Why on earth are they sending him home.

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