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To think Dd needs to stop back chatting the teachers?

(140 Posts)
PossumInAPearTree Mon 20-Mar-17 18:07:11

16yo Dd had permission from her art teacher to stay in art dept at lunchtime and do some work. Head of art walks past, sees Dd there and "screams" at her to get out.

Dd tells her that Mr X has given her permission (fair enough), teacher "shouts" at her that if she's not out the classroom in 30 seconds she will be banned from the art dept for a term.

Dd then asks her if that ban will include being banned from lessons! hmm. Dd thinks she's perfectly in the right. She doesn't see that asking if a ban would also mean being banned from lessons is arguing/cheeky/no bloody need/she should just have left.

So now she's sobbing and accusing me of having a go at her!

She was arguing with a maths teacher last week that he didn't know what a Venn diagram was and was teaching them something incorrect (she was right but I don't think arguing with him so much that she's been moved to the back row is good).

She's like this at home as well. Has to have the last word on everything and I'm sick of it. Is it normal for a teen to be so bloody argumentative? She has a total inability to take a step back and realise that sometimes it's time to bite your tongue.

harderandharder2breathe Mon 20-Mar-17 18:11:28

So many teenagers have to have the last word! It's infuriating trying to deal with them (I'm a Guide leader).

Hopefully they grow out of it when the get a bit more maturity and awareness.

ThePiglet59 Mon 20-Mar-17 18:13:16

Ah. You have a gobby teenager there. I had one of those. It just gets worse and worse.

Despairbunny Mon 20-Mar-17 18:13:54

I have two back-chatty kids. <shrugs>

If teacher doesn't want kids to backchat, how about teaching them correctly? Just a thought.

YABU. Let your dd stand up for herself at school. Hold the teachers to account.

SharkBastard Mon 20-Mar-17 18:14:37

She was asking a question though, and a perfectly reasonable one. I'd be pretty pissed if a teacher 'screamed' at me aswell! The teacher was unreasonable too!

I was, and still am, the type to stand up and ask questions or dispute behaviour or accusations

SmilingButClueless Mon 20-Mar-17 18:15:34

But in both cases the teachers were in the wrong! Do you expect her to just meekly accept whatever she's told?

Your DD could have handled it better - but she's 16 and will learn.

If she's back chatting for no reason that's different.

pandarific Mon 20-Mar-17 18:16:45

Well, in the first case the teacher was wrong and being an arsehole, and in the second case the teacher was just wrong.

How about you give your dd some credit - she's at least got the confidence and wit to speak up!

HerRoyalNotness Mon 20-Mar-17 18:17:21

I think your DD was in the right and am impressed she stands up for herself. You could approach from the view of doing so respectfully, but I don't think she was wrong here

PossumInAPearTree Mon 20-Mar-17 18:20:45

I don't think she was in the wrong over the maths teacher I guess.

But the art thing.....fair enough to say that another teacher has given permission but when this teacher still says that she needs to leave I think she should have left.

Asking if a ban will also include been banned from lessons just comes over as arguementative.

Wellthen Mon 20-Mar-17 18:25:18

But it's a bit of a life lesson in managing emotions isn't it? There will be times when people are wrong. Arguing and challenging that person isn't always the way to go about it.

Saying 'but they were wrong' is exactly the same flawed reasoning teenager use - social interactions are more nuanced than that.

Saying 'does that include lessons' is just annoying - of course it doesn't and she knows that full well.

In the case of the maths teacher, the op says she argued 'enough to get moved' so it wasn't just a case of 'Sir I don't think that's right'. She could have mentioned it once and then asked privately after the lesson.

I wouldn't expect a 16 year old to be very good at these skills yet but I think the Op is right to guide her daughter. Hopefully the teachers are also reviewing the imminent and thinking about how they could have handled it better.

Despairbunny Mon 20-Mar-17 18:29:32

Hopefully, yes. But if the teachers are so stressed that they're "screaming" at students (is this 16 yo over exaggeration or could there be an element of truth here?) the chances of them being able to review - especially when they think the issue has been resolved - are unfortunately slim.

Agree with pp that she can definitely learn the social nuances. In yr3 ds had a teacher who wasn't great at spelling (she was brilliant in every other single way) & we had to arrange that ds would talk about it to her afterwards rather than just shouting out because that was rude.

PossumInAPearTree Mon 20-Mar-17 18:31:45

I should think the screaming is 16yo exaggeration.

I'm frequently accused of screaming at her if I start getting stern.

Despairbunny Mon 20-Mar-17 18:34:42

I feel for her, a bit. I was an annoying intelligent, outspoken confident teen & it got me into a bit of trouble. A smart mouth can lead to all sorts.

Is she in 6th form or year 11?

Despairbunny Mon 20-Mar-17 18:35:15

(Not feel for her cause of you getting stern, want to make sure that comes across. Purely from the school stuff.)

FlouncingInAWinterWonderland Mon 20-Mar-17 18:43:23

Something I'd love to master that falls into this ilk is picking my battles.

The art teacher was not by the sounds of things in a communicative mood, your DD did well to politely state she had permission to be there. On second shout from the teacher, the retourt was as you state, back chat - unlikely to result in any positive outcome and very likely to have a negative one.

Its not always about who's right and wrong. Its about what the likely outcome from any situation is.

PossumInAPearTree Mon 20-Mar-17 18:46:56

Year 11. So I guess there's an element of exam stress.

Yorkshirebetty Mon 20-Mar-17 19:05:36

We only have her word for it that the teachers behaved in this way. She could well be misrepresenting what happened Have a word with the student support manager to gauge how much of a problem it is.

Yorkshirebetty Mon 20-Mar-17 19:07:47

I couldn't agree more! I'm often accused of "screaming" when I'm just speaking firmly!!

Wolfiefan Mon 20-Mar-17 19:12:27

I am an ex teacher. I would have absolutely no problem in a student correcting me or explaining there was information I didn't know (Mr X said I could work here.)
The issue isn't the challenge or disagreeing. It's how and when she does it. That's what she needs to learn.

CauliflowerSqueeze Mon 20-Mar-17 19:14:53

She's furious with you for not agreeing with her that she is right.

Situation 1 - the head of art takes priority in this situation but your daughter had got another message. She just needed to quietly explain that she had been given permission (but still leave as she was asked).

Situation 2 - she could have spoken to the teacher at the end.

Yes teens love saying how the teacher was "screaming" at them. I was told that a couple of weeks ago by a year 11 girl. I hadn't even raised my voice remotely, I was just asking her to hand over the phone she was using which she wasn't allowed to. In fact she was the one who was shouting. Another phrase they like to use is that a member of staff was "rude" to them, when what they mean is that they weren't spoken to like a friendly equal, and that the teacher, in a position of authority, was asking a group of students to do something.

TalkingofMichaelAngel0 Mon 20-Mar-17 19:15:00

I have a year 9 constantly accusing me of screaming in his face. Im neither near his face nor speaking much louder than a whisper.

What was she doing when the head of art saw her? her response was cheeky though. It clearly wasnt an innocent question.

How on earth was the maths teacher teaching venn diagrams?!

Moanyoldcow Mon 20-Mar-17 19:16:34

Sorry, I'm on your daughter's side here. She was given permission to be there and the Head of Art was unnecessarily harsh.

And the Venn diagram nonsense? I'd have contacted the school about that - all my teachers would've been pleased a student saw an error.

Maybe she's a bit hobby because she feels minimised when she has perfectly valid points.

Moanyoldcow Mon 20-Mar-17 19:16:49

Gobby, not hobby.

Trifleorbust Mon 20-Mar-17 19:24:43

Your DD sounds normal (bit gobby, bit cheeky) and you sound very nice. She will eventually realise how questioning/challenging everything all the time can be annoying and is inappropriate!

BoneyBackJefferson Mon 20-Mar-17 19:24:58

Ah yes a thread wear posters can teacher bash, we are over due one.

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