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To wonder why the next referendum about Scotland should be given to the whole UK

(26 Posts)
38cody Thu 16-Mar-17 23:44:53

Since Scotland seem to want all the cream but won't drink the milk would the UK be better off without them? Scotland take a lot in subsidies from the south but what do they contribute?
If Scots want yet another expensive and disruptive referendum on independence AIBU to suggest that the whole of the UK should be given a vote to see if they ought to go. Maybe they serve some great collective purpose but I'm yet to see what.

HirplesWithHaggis Thu 16-Mar-17 23:50:14

biscuit

bialystockandbloom Thu 16-Mar-17 23:50:18

Hmm well applying the same principle, shouldn't the EU have been given the choice about whether the UK leaves the EU or not then?

bialystockandbloom Thu 16-Mar-17 23:52:22

Or if a spouse wants to file for divorce, the other spouse should be given a vote on whether they "ought to go"?

NoWinNoFfi Fri 17-Mar-17 00:18:54

There's already a thread on the Scottish referendum on the front page. Maybe stick your goady crap in there?

BigChocFrenzy Fri 17-Mar-17 00:41:37

England is entitled to vote on its own independence from rUK

Could solve everything < muses >
Simpler for Scotland than Indy Ref 2, because Westminster can't block it
Then Scotland and NI can stay in the EU and Wales can choose its own thing.

MumW Fri 17-Mar-17 08:45:17

I hate these situations where a vote takes place and then the losing side whinge and want to keep voting until they get the result they want.

What I think is important is that, if Scotland leaves the Union at some point in the future and then want to return, those remaining in the union should have a say in whether we want them back.

WorldsDiaryPart2 Fri 17-Mar-17 08:50:44

"England is entitled to vote on its own independence from rUK"

Correct.

Op biscuit

Cartright Fri 17-Mar-17 08:53:31

And do you think the whole of the EU should have been able to vote on whether the UK leaves Europe? Or was that your point - it's a clearly ridiculous idea?

TizzyDongue Fri 17-Mar-17 09:00:43

BigChocFrenzy yes of course that's it. That's the solution. hmm Always helpful to debate things - no matter how goady you might think the opening statement is - with a defensive chip on shoulder comment.

38cody - no the rest of the UK shouldn't get to vote, as it's Scotland that want to leave, it's not Scotland being removed.

"Scotland take a lot in subsidies from the south but what do they contribute?"

Depending on who is making the statement this seems to be either completely true, or totally untrue.

It's actually fascinating, as an outsider, to see either side scrap and throw these arguments about. Admittedly, as I neither had a vote nor even in the UK, I didn't follow every word but neither side ever seemed to give actual facts and figures last time to show which statement was true.

MumW Fri 17-Mar-17 09:09:35

but neither side ever seemed to give actual facts and figures last time to show which statement was true.
Goes without saying - thats politics and politicians for you.

38cody Fri 17-Mar-17 09:25:48

Just saying - wee Sturgeon wagging her finger - "if we can't have our cake and eat it - we'll go..."
Well, erm, go then. You are superfluous to requirements anyway, off you go Hen...byeeee.

NotCarylChurchill Fri 17-Mar-17 09:39:28

Yeah, it's sooooo unreasonable to want to make your own decisions about your own country, not have ignorant racists from another country fuck yours up massively because they bought a load of lies. hmm

MorrisZapp Fri 17-Mar-17 09:43:54

Hardly that simple Caryl. Theresa May campaigned against brexit while Jeremy Corbyn didn't appear to be bothered either way. Is Corbyn ignorant and racist? May a progressive?

remoaniac Fri 17-Mar-17 09:44:00

Scotland take a lot in subsidies from the south but what do they contribute?

This is always trotted out but Scots are absolutely clear they contribute more than they receive.

It can't be true that Scotland both contributes more than it receives back - and receives more than it contributes.

Can anyone tell me where I could get the figures and find out once and for all?

And I agree it would be simpler all round for England and Wales to leave the UK and for Scotland, NI and Gibraltar to stay in the EU as the continuing UK.

shockthemonkey Fri 17-Mar-17 09:50:09

Your thread title is badly drafted.

Made me wonder if I'd missed something of late...

it should read "to wonder whether..." not why

Coffeethrowtrampbitch Fri 17-Mar-17 10:08:55

remoaniac it is very difficult to get any figures as the Treasury don't differentiate income very well.
For example, Scottish whisky sent to English distribution centers then sent abroad counts as English taxation revenue, as even though the product was made in Scotland export tax paid on it was paid in England. So the export tax is attributed to England.

Before the last indyref, a unionist academic analysed 32 years of Treasury receipts Vs Barnett formula expenditure. His aim was to prove that the UK subsidised Scotland.
He actually found that some years it paid in more, and some less, but over the period he analysed on average Scotland paid in more than it received.

I think based on that Scotland has a good economic case to manage alone - if independent it can borrow as the UK does in years where it doesn't profit, and pay back on the years when it does.

It is worth noting that the UK is 1.7 trillion pounds in debt, has a deficit of around 50 billion annually, and is still planning to leave the EU at an estimated cost of £120 billion.

So economic competence isn't always a deciding factor in whether you should leave a union.

LouKout Fri 17-Mar-17 10:10:17

People post arrogant crap like this then moan about anti English feeling in Scotland

MercyMyJewels Fri 17-Mar-17 10:22:52

Piss off back to your Brexit hole

LagunaBubbles Fri 17-Mar-17 10:26:59

Just saying - wee Sturgeon wagging her finger - "if we can't have our cake and eat it - we'll go..."Well, erm, go then. You are superfluous to requirements anyway, off you go Hen...byeeee

And yet Westminster dont want that, wonder why eh? What a nasty, goady and ignorant post.

specialsubject Fri 17-Mar-17 10:28:28

So we had the EU referendum and voted without knowing the deal and the results of leaving. It is agreed that was a huge risk and not a good idea.

And now sturgeon wants the same? Not learning by experience is dumb.

Wait until after brexit - Scotland is leaving anyway, they will be thrown out as a separate country. As long as sturgeon is in power no one will ever shut up about it.

I think only scotland should vote - which should be a choice of 'leave' or ' stay and no more referenda on this for fifty years'

trixymalixy Fri 17-Mar-17 13:32:58

Coffee your post is absolute bullshit.That myth has been well and truly busted. here

PoundlandUK Fri 17-Mar-17 13:40:19

And now sturgeon wants the same?

No. If you look at her twitter page you'll be able to view her exact words (speeches, comments to journalists etc). She wants the referendum to be held during the specific window when TM has "guaranteed" a Brexit proposal/negotiated option, so there can be a fact-based comparison.

She has been extremely clear on this point.

Of course, TM won't have anything concrete in a million years but that's a different matter.

haveacupoftea Fri 17-Mar-17 13:46:55

biscuit

ClopySow Fri 17-Mar-17 14:28:04

Theresa? Is that you?

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