Dss abusive to his four year old half brother

[MrsWatt]

This came up on the thread about the cruise cabins that I posted yesterday. Luckily we resolved that issue.

Many posters were concerned about dss and four year old ds. He will tell his half brother to shut the fuck up and be fucking quite or piss off. This happens when ds is loud and playful but is particularly bad in the mornings when dss gets woken up by ds. He has also called his little brother a cunt. We do punish him for this behaviour but have given up because it is very difficult to punish a 17 year old as many might know.

When ds was a baby he was much kinder to him and actually used to play with him/hold him.

He has little consideration for his brother for example he was in a strop when we went as a family to Disneyland Paris. I know they are teenagers and wouldn't want to be at Disneyland as much as a four year old but it was only for two days and then they got two days in Paris which we tried to aim towards them.

This causes huge problems as my sons don't like his attitude and dh gets really angry at him. Dh used to be close to him but they aren't anymore he gets really cross at his sons behaviour and ends up giving him money to just go and do his own thing. He gets on much better with my sons and it must hurt to see them do things together when dss isn't. But it is clearly his own making due to poor and disrespectful behaviour. I think he's got into a vicious cycle where he rejects everybodies love as a protection because he rejects them first. It's a really sad state of affairs. His mum and him are close but she is very involved with the new boyfriend and seems to give him more attention than she does her son. He has seen a counsellor in the past but he ends up saying what they like to hear and then leaving.

I used to clash with him but I've actually ended up getting on better with him and dh ended up getting on worse. I think I have come to expect little from him.

Not really aibu but I thought I should post it hear since it links to the previous thread.

[Wishiwasmoiradingle2017]

Personally I would leave dss to dh and reduce the time he was around my ds tbh.
Unless you are happy to have him as a role model for your child. ..

[ImperialBlether]

It's a very sad situation for all of you. Your step son is clearly unhappy, but by talking and behaving like that, he's guaranteeing nobody will like him. That would make him even more unhappy.

Your sons don't want to be near them and I don't blame them for not wanting him in their home. Obviously it's your step son's home as well, but at least he can go to his mum's, where your sons don't have that choice.

He's 17 now - what will he do when he's 18? Will he go to university? Things will probably improve when he gets a girlfriend, too, but that could be a while off if he's being so horrible to everyone.

[ChippieBeanAndHorro]

So... I'm not pretending I have all the answers. Not at all...

1. Giving him money so ohe won't be stroppy during the trip? I feel like that's rewarding bad behaviour.
   

1. Maybe DH could do things just with his DS? And not as a group? That may foster a better relationship, less resentement etc...
   

1. Have you told DSS that what he does is abusive? That (step) sibling abuse is a thing and won't be tolerated anymore? Not sure how you could discipline a 17 yo however. Sorry.
   

1. Family therapy?
   

1. I don't think he should be let near your DS until he is willing to improve his behaviour. It should be made clear that this is a needed consequence to protect a child.

[ChippieBeanAndHorro]

I feel so sorry for everybody involved. This sounds like a really really awful situation.

[Moanyoldcow]

It's not acceptable for him to talk to anyone like that let alone a 4 year old. Where is he getting that from?

It sounds like he might be feeling excluded and isolated. Could you try some family therapy sessions.

If this were me I'd be reconsidering my living arrangements - I could not live with someone treating family members that way and he'd need to be respectful or I'd be breaking up the family. I know that might sound extreme but no one should grow up being abused by anyone and you 4 year old's emotional wellbeing trumps his need to lash out.

[MrsWatt]

That would make him even more unhappy.
Exactly what I believe it's a way to prevent pain and fear by rejecting all love around you.

[Flisstizzy]

It is clearly unacceptable for your dss to behave like this, he sounds deeply unpleasant and at 17 he is very nearly an adult.
I would not allow him to be close to your 4.5 year old who is subject to his abuseand if that involves barring him from your home until he can guarantee better behaviour then so be it.
Unfortunately I suspect this will make your dss worse but I think you need to protect the little one here.

[MrsWatt]

*So... I'm not pretending I have all the answers. Not at all...

1. Giving him money so ohe won't be stroppy during the trip? I feel like that's rewarding bad behaviour.
   

1. Maybe DH could do things just with his DS? And not as a group? That may foster a better relationship, less resentement etc...
   

1. Have you told DSS that what he does is abusive? That (step) sibling abuse is a thing and won't be tolerated anymore? Not sure how you could discipline a 17 yo however. Sorry.
   

1. Family therapy?
   

1. I don't think he should be let near your DS until he is willing to improve his behaviour. It should be made clear that this is a needed consequence to protect a child.*
   

Dh and dss have tried doing things together but dh gets very angry with the way he treats ds. They clash he's horrible and rejecting to dh and dh doesn't get why.

Giving him money because dh would rather him be somewhere else I know that's bad to say but it's true.

Someone asked where he's getting the language from his language is appalling in general. He speaks like a thug it's really disgusting I think it comes from the music his listens to but his language is so terrible he speaks like a south London gangsta when we live in a rural Sussex.

[MrsWatt]

I can't bar him from the house he lives with us all week and visits mum on weekend but doesn't stay she only has a one bedroom flat so it isn't feesible.

[LesSmiths1]

This is disgusting behaviour. I am shocked at it. It's sad that dh and dss no longer get on. Perhaps he feels unwanted and is trying to test if he is by acting out.

To all those pointing out 17 year old can be a young 17 or really mature.

[incogKNEEto]

If he can't rein in his bad language and attitude l would be withdrawing all access to money/the WiFi password until he sorts himself out! He is 17 he needs to shape up or ship out.

If that doesn't work he needs to look for somewhere else to live as you cannot allow your 4.5 year old to be abused in his own home

[letsmargaritatime]

I saw your other thread, what a horrible situation for you. His behaviour is appalling but he also sounds in pain. Wish I could give you some useful advice. Hopefully he will grow out of it? My ds was so horrid to me for a while, and had absolutely zero empathy for how it was affecting me and the whole family. But now we have a great relationship, we don't speak of that time because what would be the point. I had done nothing to deserve it but he couldn't help it it seemed, and it passed. Hang on in there x

[Flisstizzy]

Agree with PP- an ultimatum is needed to protect the 4 year old.
His behaviour sounds very threatening, he needs to have strict consequences for this

[MrsWatt]

He is safe the four year old, I doubt he's in danger dss tries to get as far from him as possible. How do suggest protecting him.

[LesSmiths1]

I certainly think you should kick dss out.

[MrsWatt]

How can I kick him out I think it would end up dss not speaking to dh forever. The

[ChippieBeanAndHorro]

If he won't change...

Not right now. Try family therapy etc.

But if he won't change then he's basically kicking himself out, imo...

[MrsWatt]

He tells therapists what they want to hear and then goes back to old ways.

[titchy]

He may be physically safe but he's not emotionally or mentally safe. He's being bullied and abused in his own home.

If another four year old bullied him every day at school, or you knew of another four year old whose father regularly called him a cunt you'd be getting social services or school involved.

But you're giving this thug money and forking out for an extra cabin so he can go on a cruise with you?

I'd be cancelling his place on the cruise and taking the router on holiday with you....

Zero tolerance.

[ChippieBeanAndHorro]

Yes. And if you tell him, maybe after a few sessions etc with the help of a therapist that he will be kicked out if it continues... And if he still goes back to old ways. Well, then he's kicking himself out.


Maybe I'm being oversensitive due to bad personal experiences. But being afraid of anybody in your own home is absolutely horrible and may have longlasting consequences.

If he doused your DS in cold water instead of verbally abusing him, how would you feel? or if he threw something at him (like a shoe, for example) instead of calling him a c*?

[AndNoneForGretchenWieners]

When my DSS1 was about 20 he was rude, obnoxious and treated our home like a hotel. He was also unkind to DSS2 and DS. The last straw was him bringing home a girl who stole from us and having to take my handbag to bed every night just to make sure it was safe. DH kicked him out and he couldn't live with his mum because her husband didn't want the boys living there, so he had to get his own place.

I know your DSS is younger but he is still nearly.an adult and your DH and you should be united in telling him that his behaviour is unacceptable and he needs to improve or move out. Maybe he needs a shock to understand the impact he is having. Even if he was your son and not your stepson, you wouldn't tolerate this behaviour towards a younger sibling so your DH should be with you on this.

[MatildaTheCat]

I could put up with quite a lot from a troubled teen but not the swearing at a four year old. That just has to stop. Period.

You currently have the better relationship so I suggest getting him alone in a situation where you can have a conversation, the car is often good for this or out walking. Then tell him how much you do appreciate this situation is not what he wants and you can see he is not happy but it is not ok, ever, to take it out on the smallest and most vulnerable member of the family.

Tell him what the consequence will be if he does this again and stick to it no matter how hard it is. Obviously listen to him and see if there is anything that can help him within reason. Does the four year old antagonise him on purpose or barge into his room at 6am?

But the swearing? No, that stops.

[midcenturymodern]

He tells therapists what they want to hear and then goes back to old ways

So if he goes back to his old ways then he is out. You can't sail a 4yo down the river to protect a 17yo, not to mention your other 17 yo who he has insulted and the 15 yo who you thought was too young to share with 17 yo DSS rather than an adult but you think is just fine and dandy with 17yo DS. You obviously don't feel comfortable with your 15 yo being around him either.

If the 4yo is barging into his room or yelling then that needs to be addressed but part of living with people is putting up with ordinary getting up and getting ready noise in the morning. He will learn that when he moves into a shared house with people who will not accept being called a cunt.

[MrsWatt]

Ds four is prone to screaming in the mornings with excitement.

Another problem is grandparents will always stick up for dss mil in particular will blame us for provoking him I wish she would see the day to day impact of it.

We have taken away money but he gets money from his mum and grandfather (mothers side) regularly. His mum will support us with any discipline but it won't be enforced.

Wifi we disconnected it and he turned on my phones hotspot and used my data.

[MrsWatt]

Unfortunately he already has a girlfriend so any chance that would make him mature is not the case.