A Tory Chancellor has just abandoned the self-employed

(276 Posts)
longfingernails Wed 08-Mar-17 15:07:13

Hammond has raised class 4 NICs and cut the dividend allowance. AIBU to believe this is unacceptable. We need to be a low tax capitalist country which does everything to encourage entrepreneurs, whose animal spirits aren't dampened by high job taxes.

We should instead cut NI for all employers/employees. An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid. We can also improve efficiency in public services through greater private provision, reducing the benefits cap, etc.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Mar-17 15:17:49

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MaudGonneMad Wed 08-Mar-17 15:19:19

'Animal spirits' confused

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 08-Mar-17 15:22:27

An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid. Yeah, fuck people. Especially poor people who don't live here.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Wed 08-Mar-17 15:23:53

It's a 2% rise, bringing the self-employed rate up to the same rate as employed people.

My animal spirit quite likes having roads to drive on and hospitals to visit if it gets a bit poorly, so I'm A-OK with that.

longfingernails Wed 08-Mar-17 15:25:54

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_spirits_(Keynes)

Keynes was wrong about nearly everything, but 'animal spirits' is a pithy phrase I like. It neatly summarises how mood music is important.

Even if the changes themselves are small, they clearly signal that Hammond is ready to abandon natural working-class Tories.

scaryteacher Wed 08-Mar-17 15:30:17

I don't think private is always better than public services though Longfingernails, I seem to remember HM Forces having to drag G4S and Cameron out of a very big hole with the London Olympics.

I agree international aid needs to be looked at to ensure that our cash is going where it should, and that it isn't disappearing into baksheesh payments, or that the NGOs aren't profiting unduly, but we should be helping, albeit at a lower level of GDP perhaps.

Justanothernameonthepage Wed 08-Mar-17 15:31:11

Well they already abandoned refugees, children, the sick, the poor and disabled. Can't bring myself to have much sympathy that the self employed no longer get a discount

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Wed 08-Mar-17 15:35:21

Ah, I'm not a Tory. Didn't think it was compulsory for a successful entrepreneur.

But snark aside, why should the self-employed pay a smaller contribution? Just because they are self-employed? That makes no sense.

longfingernails Wed 08-Mar-17 15:36:49

The self-employed are risk takers. They are self-reliant. They are natural Tories. You would have thought that Theresa May and Philip Hammond would recognise that.

As it is, they are driving them to UKIP. In itself, that is no bad thing, but it is disappointing that the party of Thatcher and Lawson has taken this shameful measure.

LurkingHusband Wed 08-Mar-17 15:37:20

Someone has to pay for Brexit ....

LurkingHusband Wed 08-Mar-17 15:37:49

Someone has to pay for Brexit ....

Studyinghell Wed 08-Mar-17 15:38:15

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LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Wed 08-Mar-17 15:38:42

Stereotype much?

unicornsIlovethem Wed 08-Mar-17 15:39:09

Why should they pander to the self-employed. Who else will they vote for? UKIP will be gone in 6 months, and Breitbart UK won't be off the ground. the self-employed won't vote for Labour under Corbyn.

TBH, the Government haven't got anything to lose. They could up the NICs by another 10% and probably still keep the votes.

Annesmyth123 Wed 08-Mar-17 15:39:34

What a shame the self employed are going to have to pay the same rate as the rest of us. I'm sure your accountants will find another loophole for you soon enough. Smallest violin and all that.

WannaBe Wed 08-Mar-17 15:40:43

I do think that international aid needs reviewing. Not on a full scale, but I am e.g very uncomfortable with the idea that we give so much to countries such as India who can afford their own nuclear programmes.

mummymeister Wed 08-Mar-17 15:41:05

anyone who is self employed knows that this is a loophole. this is why a number of people - some quite high profile in the BBC and such places - declare themselves as self employed so that they can exploit this.

National insurance as a separate "tax" is a total joke. the only reason why successive govts - all govts of any colour rosette - haven't got rid of it is so that the income tax can look like it stays low.

its all bloody tax all going into the same bloody pot. So why don't we just be a bit grown up about it and have one tax - income tax and amalgamate it with NI.

As I understand it anyone earning over 50K stops paying more NI as it is capped at this level. so your "animal spirit" earning £100K pays the same amount of NI as the same earning £50K

if we got rid of NI then people earning £50k+ would then naturally be paying more wouldn't they.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Wed 08-Mar-17 15:41:29

But why should you get a discount on your NI for being a self-reliant risk taker? There's no logic there. You might as well demand a discount for being whimsical or really, really good at chess. Or both. But likely not at the same time.

The reward for being self-employed is unlimited earning opportunities, complete flexibility and not having to have an appraisal with Nigel the middle manager who is more worried about his loss of erection than your KPIs. You don't get a tax cut too.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Wed 08-Mar-17 15:41:34

The self-employed are risk takers. They are self-reliant. They are natural Tories.

Funnily enough the majority of self employed I know are actually through and through Labour voters.

longfingernails Wed 08-Mar-17 15:41:35

This measure doesn't affect me personally (except to the extent that it will dampen entrepreneurial initiative in the British economy generally).

But I know whose side I'm on. I expected more of Hammond; he has been an entrepreneur himself.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners Wed 08-Mar-17 15:42:26

So all self employed people are bigots and casual racists, and therefore will find something in common with the rest of the kippers. Right.

Have my first biscuit

amispartacus Wed 08-Mar-17 15:42:31

It's a 2% rise, bringing the self-employed rate up to the same rate as employed people

Self employed people find it harder to get sick pay and other work benefits compared to employed people. They obviously have less worker's rights.

And try getting mortgages etc if you're self employed. Doable but difficult.

In fact, try navigating the support system if you're self employed.

TheLambShankRedemption Wed 08-Mar-17 15:43:10

Self employed and PAYE should pay the same income tax.

YABU, you've been getting away with dividend tax breaks for years.

OhYouBadBadKitten Wed 08-Mar-17 15:43:13

I disagree with much of what you have said longfingernails, but as a self employed person I do feel rather pissed off that we have been targeted rather than big businesses.

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