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why should house of lords be able to determine our future?

(366 Posts)
dreamingofsun Tue 07-Mar-17 18:32:57

Could someone explain to me why an unelected group of people (many of whom seem old/senile/out of touch with every day life) determine our terms of leaving the european union - and whether we leave it at all. the british public voted to leave - so why do they think they can alter that? why do they think they can over-rule what the majority of public said?

yellowfrog Tue 07-Mar-17 18:34:02

Cos that's the way our government is set up

ForalltheSaints Tue 07-Mar-17 18:35:47

Because they are the only opposition we seem to have, other than one Green and nine Lib Dems, as the Labour Party are a joke.

BanjoStarz Tue 07-Mar-17 18:37:39

This is how our democracy is set up...parliamentary sovereignty is exactly what people voted for surely?

dreamingofsun Tue 07-Mar-17 18:37:51

but if the majority of the british public voted to leave, why is parliament putting barriers in the way of that? is that not undemocratic?

JigglyTuff Tue 07-Mar-17 18:38:39

The British public didn't know what the fuck they were voting for. Thank god there's a back stop to prevent idiotic politicians (and where is Cameron?) leading the country into a Little England disaster zone from which we will never recover.

Scholes34 Tue 07-Mar-17 18:39:12

But the majority of the British public didn't vote to leave. A majority of those who voted did. That's just a comment on the OP's subsequent statement.

Corabell Tue 07-Mar-17 18:40:17

The House of Lords has a very important democratic function a scrutinising legislation and holding the government accountable. So the old/senile members of the h of l are doing their job.

itsmine Tue 07-Mar-17 18:40:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StereophonicallyChallenged Tue 07-Mar-17 18:41:28

They can't actually stop anything though can they?? (Genuine question for more enlightened person!)

I thought they can delay, and ask for amendments and such, but ultimately they can't pass laws, that's the representatives job.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer Tue 07-Mar-17 18:42:12

I agree with banjo

Parliamentary sovereignty is part of our democracy

GrouchyKiwi Tue 07-Mar-17 18:42:14

The majority of the British public didn't vote to leave the EU. The majority of the people who could be buggered to get up off their arses and vote did, which leaves us with a rather smaller percentage of the population than 52%.

It was an advisory referendum. It wasn't legally binding.

The Lords are doing what their role is: making sure Parliament follows due process and actually thinks things through properly instead of going off gung ho on Theresa May's timetable. They actually can't hold it up indefinitely if Parliament votes to ignore their amendment, but they can encourage greater scrutiny.

Surely putting brakes on Parliament is nothing but a good thing? A lot of bad legislation has been fixed by the Lords sending it back to Parliament and I wish Holyrood had a bicameral system.

MaidOfStars Tue 07-Mar-17 18:42:43

The majority of the British public did not vote to leave - stop saying that.

The HoL, as I understand it, cannot and has no intention of forcing a Brexit U-turn. They are making recommendations of checks and balances for the process.

zoemaguire Tue 07-Mar-17 18:43:36

We live in a parliamentary democracy, so parliament has ultimate say. Wasn't that what you voted for?! In practise of course the future of our poor country seems to be being decided by the kind of 'leave' voters too stupid to even try to understand the very basics of how parliamentary democracy operates.

amispartacus Tue 07-Mar-17 18:44:04

The House of Lords is helping shape the debate. I agree we should have an elected Upper House and a Head of State who is not like the US President but is elected to ensure the Constitution is followed.

I wonder how many people who are against the House of Lords when it debates are for an unelected Head of State?

We need debate on this issue. It was a close run thing. Brexit is still going ahead. But we should have debate. In the UK Parliament.

Klaphat Tue 07-Mar-17 18:44:14

why when there's welfare cuts left right and centre they pay this doddery dusty bunch 300 quid a day?! fgs surely that should be the first austerity cut.

Because austerity isn't due to lack of funds, it is ideological. That there are still people that don't get this amazes me. Not meaning to single you out, though.

DancingDragon Tue 07-Mar-17 18:44:40

This is how our democracy is set up...parliamentary sovereignty is exactly what people voted for surely

Yep, this! Lol.

amispartacus Tue 07-Mar-17 18:45:55


Do you think we should have an elected Upper House?

What about our Head of State? Do you want to get rid of the Queen and have an elected Head of State as well - with powers like in Ireland?

Anon1234567890 Tue 07-Mar-17 18:46:33

I think its time to start retiring them off.

sibys1 Tue 07-Mar-17 18:47:06

Whether or not the House of Lords should continue to be reformed and made more democratic is a legitimate question.

But when people kicked off because the courts ruled parliament needs to vote on Brexit, or complain now because the house of lords is doing its fucking job, I despair at how little understanding some Leave voters seem to have about the basics of how our country is governed.

MrsPeterDoherty Tue 07-Mar-17 18:48:17

It's Parliamentary Sovereignty. Suck it up, it's what Brexit was all about

Obsidian77 Tue 07-Mar-17 18:48:48

Surely if you voted leave to "take back our sovereignty", this is exactly what you voted for?

HirplesWithHaggis Tue 07-Mar-17 18:49:46

ForalltheSaints you've forgotten the 56 SNP/independent MPs, a far better opposition to Labour. We're not independent yet! wink

There are no SNP Lords, btw, as party policy is that HoL should be abolished.

amispartacus Tue 07-Mar-17 18:49:49

But when people kicked off because the courts ruled parliament needs to vote on Brexit, or complain now because the house of lords is doing its fucking job

Exactly. People voted to 'take back control' and Parliament has control.

Even now, in theory, the Queen could refuse to sign the bill. She's unelected. It's a good thing she seems to be pro-Brexit. But what if it was Charles who I think might be Remain. What if he refused to sign the bill?

This is how our democracy works. It's how it worked before Brexit too.

titchy Tue 07-Mar-17 18:50:04

They can't actually stop anything though can they??

Yes of course they can - that's how Parliament works. Remember those massive changes/cuts to disability benefits the government wanted to push through a year or so ago? Blocked by the Lords.

The vast majority of Peers that sit in the upper House aren't senile old duffers at all, they do a very thorough and very important job. A few aren't fit for purpose admittedly, but most are.

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