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To think that not every bad "behaviour" by an adult is abuse.

(26 Posts)
winekeepsmesane Mon 06-Mar-17 20:38:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ClopySow Mon 06-Mar-17 20:41:46

Just because it's learned behaviour doesn't mean it's not abusive.

If someone learned to be violent because their parent was violent, would that not be abusive?

TalkingofMichaelAngel0 Mon 06-Mar-17 20:41:50

Why does the reason behind the behaviour make the behaviour any better?

winekeepsmesane Mon 06-Mar-17 20:46:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eolian Mon 06-Mar-17 20:47:25

YABU. The reason for the behaviour doesn't determine whether it's abusive or not. The abusiveness is to do with the effect it has on the victim, not to do with the reason the abuser does it.

winekeepsmesane Mon 06-Mar-17 20:49:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

normastits5 Mon 06-Mar-17 20:49:25

I think I can see where you are coming from op , by examining the reasons behind a persons behaviour we begin to really understand them. However this can be very hard to do when you are the one on the receiving end of shitty behaviour and in some instances you would have to be some kind of saint to continue to display such understanding! smile

MrsKCastle Mon 06-Mar-17 20:51:45

I think that some abusive people don't intend to be abusive and probably aren't aware that their behaviour could be seen in that way. But that doesn't make it ok. The person being abused doesn't have any obligation to stay just because the abuser didn't really mean it.

TalkingofMichaelAngel0 Mon 06-Mar-17 20:54:25

Come on. Isnt that classic abuser behaviour anyway? I didnt mean to! It's not my fault! My parents were simply awful! Dont they a have an excuse? Nothing makes it ok.

WorldWideWish Mon 06-Mar-17 20:55:27

I think the problem is that many people (especially women) do tend to try and understand and feel compassion for abusers, and say things like you are saying (e.g. 'he doesn't realise what he is doing' or 'it's because his parents were like that) and this can result in them putting up with awful behaviour for far too long.

WhooooAmI24601 Mon 06-Mar-17 20:57:11

It all comes down to self-awareness. You have to be aware to a certain degree of who you are and your own foibles in order to shape and change your own behaviour. If it's your 'normal' because of abuse or a chaotic childhood or your own parent's traits, you still have the choice as to who you end up being, but without that self-awareness you might spend your life not knowing quite how awful you are.

Of course, some people are fully aware that they're abusive and just pretend not to recognise it in order to gaslight those around them into believing the abuser is the victim in all of it. And some people are just dicks.

winekeepsmesane Mon 06-Mar-17 20:57:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DJBaggySmalls Mon 06-Mar-17 20:59:19

What if the person that's acting controlling or jealous/territorial etc just hasn't been taught a different way?

Then its still abuse. Whether they act that way because thats what they learned as a child or an adult is irrelevant. the effect on the other person is the same whatever the intent.
Its up to them to change their behaviour to one thats appropriate, not for everyone else to tolerate it.

WhooooAmI24601 Mon 06-Mar-17 21:03:30

It's a tolerance thing, isn't it? A couple of women I know tolerate far more from their DH's than I would. One believes he was damaged by his parents (who are, indeed, fuckawful) so persists in their marriage and tries to buffer her DH's EA towards their DS, because it's not his fault he's replicating his parents behaviour. I couldn't tolerate anyone behaving that way towards my DCs, but she loves him enough to believe he's the victim. Love can blind people, as can hope. But it doesn't make it any less an abusive relationship.

plotisgone Mon 06-Mar-17 21:14:01

I'm in an EA relationship and my thoughts are similar to yours. I think certain women would be less sensitive than me to my bfs abuse and so perhaps wouldn't recognise it as abuse (unless they discussed with friends who put the idea forward that she was a victim). I also think it moulded my bf that his ex was good at exasperating his aggression, and their relationship put foundation in his mind for a 'normal' way to deal with issues. Thankfully because of the way I view things (as you do to some extent) I am trying to shape him into a productive and appropriate partner (even though it's extremely difficult and I have lost support of some friends because I have decided to stay with him). Things will get worse too no doubt but I live in hope that things will be alright soon.

Eolian Mon 06-Mar-17 21:15:13

Also would it be a case of explaining why certain actions are abusive first and THEN decide to leave if it doesn't change?

I think if the abuser has been conditioned by their childhood or past experiences to the extent that they don't even know what they're doing is abusive, they are pretty unlikely to change. If it is mildly abusive behaviour and they accept straight away that they've been abusive and immediately change their ways for good, then sure. But I doubt that is òften the case.

ComeOnSpring Mon 06-Mar-17 21:20:52

YANBU.
I don't think you can always take what people say on forums as a consensus.
I also think the term abuse is thrown around too much and also that it is always correlated with escalating behaviour patterns. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

JoJoSM2 Mon 06-Mar-17 21:24:24

It's just a typical excuse/ justification for women who seek out abusive partners. They make crap up about things not being bad or there being a 'very good reason' and then decide they should carry on being abused.

BToperator Mon 06-Mar-17 21:24:44

I think an awful lot of people are abusive, or accept abuse from their partners, because they have grown up with it as normal. That doesn't make it any more right, or less abusive, although it is understandable.

DJBaggySmalls Mon 06-Mar-17 21:25:14

ComeOnSpring
it is always correlated with escalating behaviour patterns.
People who find themselves in an escalating situation always minimize it. they often have a poor sense of boundaries.
Playing 'wait and see' with other peoples safety is not a good idea.

Its not up to the victim to make it OK for the abuser.

BestZebbie Mon 06-Mar-17 21:25:18

1) I think the confusion here is that the OP is seeing the word "abuse" to be an active one including self-awareness or intent, whereas generally "an abusive relationship" is defined more by the effects than the causes.

2) I think there probably is some value in trying to work out if there is self-awareness and intent in poor behaviour before writing someone off, on the basis that there is a chance that someone unaware of how badly they come across might be horrified and try to change. No-one has a duty to try to "save" that other person, especially not one greater than their own duty to protect themselves, however. In many circumstances, the safest thing is for the person to spend some time on their own seeing if they can actually change, and then demonstrate the results, rather than staying in a position where they can cause harm whilst "trying".

winekeepsmesane Mon 06-Mar-17 21:26:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

willconcern Mon 06-Mar-17 21:28:10

But as someone who is the victim would it be natural to dismiss the idea of abuse because you understand why they behave the way they do?

This is why I stayed with an abusive partner. "Understanding his issues" didn't make him any less abusive. It just meant I felt sorry for him, and stayed several years longer than I should have.

PeaFaceMcgee Mon 06-Mar-17 21:31:16

It's a possible explanation, not an excuse. It's not up to the victim to psychoanalyse the person abusing them. It makes no difference and still doesn't make it acceptable or something they should 'bear'.

DameDeDoubtance Mon 06-Mar-17 21:37:26

Society already tells women to put up and shut up, stand by your man and all that malarkey. Calling the behaviour what is is can only be a good thing.

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