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Ok - another trans thead

(426 Posts)
Bambambini Wed 01-Mar-17 13:20:48

This is more about logic and free speech than simply Trans issues. A catholic group paid to advertise their message on a bus that Girls have vulvas and boys have penises. Seems it was a reaction to a similar ad promoting that girls have penises and boys have vulvas. Aibu to be concerned that logic and free speech is under attack? Why was one claim allowed and another censored? This seems to be a sign of the times and I'm getting worried. Who is choosing which ideas, agendas are allowed and promoted?

Bambambini Wed 01-Mar-17 13:22:24

Bbc link here

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39125187

IamFriedSpam Wed 01-Mar-17 13:28:07

Would you be happy for the catholic church to write message saying "marriage is between a man and a woman". Or for a white power group to promote some kind of racist message all over a bus? What if I wanted to promote a poster claiming catholic priests were mainly peadophiles? The catholic church doesn't get to define gender.

Trans people are enormously vulnerable so having a message on a bus basically contradicting their identity is incredibly damaging.

Klaphat Wed 01-Mar-17 13:30:19

Que no te engañen indeed.

I very much like that bus.

Klaphat Wed 01-Mar-17 13:32:25

The catholic church doesn't get to define gender.
They're not defining gender, they're stating facts.

Trans people are enormously vulnerable so having a message on a bus basically contradicting their identity is incredibly damaging.
This is awfully close to claiming that not validating someone's identity and/or wish to use alternative facts is literal violence.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 01-Mar-17 13:33:56

TBH I'd rather both had been banned. Not sure I like seeing discussions of children's genitalia on the side of a bus.

(Although, obviously the first advert was simply wrong)

Floggingmolly Wed 01-Mar-17 13:34:15

One claim is based on scientificly proven fact; the other is a pile of unutterable bollocks.

Floggingmolly Wed 01-Mar-17 13:36:20

How is it "contradicting someone's identity" to declare than only men can have a penis? This is a fact. An indisputable FACT.

EdmundCleverClogs Wed 01-Mar-17 13:36:23

As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic Church is in no position to dictate what is right and wrong, regardless of individual views on transgender people.

The extreme views on both sides are the only ones getting attention, it's currently impossible to actually have a balanced discussion on the matter. Anyone proclaiming their ideals on a bus advert really isn't one of the balanced majority, as much as most of Mumsnet opinions on trans issues are.

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers Wed 01-Mar-17 13:37:33

The whole trans issue is so complicated that a bus advert seems a very inappropriate way to go about things anyway.

Laughing smiling kids being at one with each other and themselves and accepting isn't my recognition of what being a trans child is.

Neither of them should have been allowed imo.

BertrandRussell Wed 01-Mar-17 13:39:36

Neither should have been allowed. Both wildly inappropriate.

Floggingmolly Wed 01-Mar-17 13:39:51

I agree, actually Edmund. But propaganda like "girls have penises and boys have vulvas" shouldn't be making it's way unchallenged into the public domain.

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 01-Mar-17 13:40:39

I don't think either ad is needed, and if one was not allowed by Madrid City Council then the other one should have been banned too.

Bambambini Wed 01-Mar-17 14:04:37

I agree that neither was appropriate but why was one deemed wrong and banned? If i put out an ad saying "the earth is flat and that is how it is" and another group came out with a ad saying "that the earth was a globe" and was banned. Is this censorship really not worth thinking about?

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 01-Mar-17 14:11:56

It is worth talking about. I do wonder how and why this ideology has been so successful at influencing people who make decisions, like Madrid City Council in this case.

WankingMonkey Wed 01-Mar-17 14:18:19

I don't think anyone should be advertising messages about childrens genitals on a bus tbh. I find it all rather creepy. I do agree that boys have penises and girls have vulvas, however to see an ad somewhere about this I would find a bit dodgy. To see an ad saying girls have penises and boys have vulvas I would find dodgy, and completely batshit at the same time.

BevGoldbergsSister Wed 01-Mar-17 14:19:27

Both are completely ridiculous as advertisements.

However factually one is correct and one is incorrect.

IAmFriedSpam its not comaparable to a racist message. Racist messages do not have a basis in biology, saying girls have vaginas and bots penises (penii?) Is basic biological fact.

Anyone who finds biology trigggering needs urgent medical help and some councelling to deal with their issues, not us agreeing science is not real.

Rixera Wed 01-Mar-17 14:20:59

What if as a result of a terrible accident a boy lost his penis? Would he not be a boy any more?

WankingMonkey Wed 01-Mar-17 14:21:49

What if as a result of a terrible accident a boy lost his penis? Would he not be a boy any more?

...are castrated males females? of course not.

Floggingmolly Wed 01-Mar-17 14:22:08

Of course he would, because he was born with a penis hmm

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 01-Mar-17 14:23:22

The important point would be that he wouldn't be a girl, because he doesn't have a vulva. Of course he would still be a boy.

Rixera Wed 01-Mar-17 14:23:30

Then why advertise all boys have penises?
You've just proved they don't.

WankingMonkey Wed 01-Mar-17 14:24:47

Then why advertise all boys have penises?
You've just proved they don't.
Childrens genitals should not be advertised anyway.

But not having a penis does not mean you are a female, or that you have a vulva now does it? It simply means you had a very unfortunate accident. but are still male.

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 01-Mar-17 14:26:21

I don't think they should have run that advert.

A boy/man who has lost their penis doesn't invalidate the category of boys/men.

Rixera Wed 01-Mar-17 14:27:25

Right, because you identify as one and know you are.
So what about the ones born with both sets of genitals, or who know they are but have the 'wrong' parts...

But anyway, that's a matter of opinion.
What I was getting at is that it's not scientific fact that all boys have penises, as many people have used as their main justification.

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