Aibu to blame ds for it?

[Laralion]

So I've two dc. An 8 year old boy and a 20 month old boy. Both love each other and play together nicely sometimes.

Ds2 does sometimes hit. This behaviour is new to me because I was lucky that ds1 was never a hitter. Of course I tell him no, he does it to me, dh and ds1. I tend to say no and turn my back to him/put him down if he does it

However, ds1 is forever teasing the baby. Getting right up in his face, blocking his way if he's running around, grabbing him, so the baby lashes out.

I tell ds1 to stop teasing his brother, stop getting in his face etc.

Trouble is at times ds1 will annoy the baby, so the baby comes crying to me for a cuddle, ds1 then tries to join in the cuddle and the baby hits out. I'm thinking which one do I tell off.

Am I wrong to expect more of ds1?

Any advice on how to deal with it?

[Sunnysky2016]

No you are not, he's 8 years old and should know better.
You say they play nicely together- I'm curious, what do they play with that are suitable for both age groups?

[Bluntness100]

Well both children are in the wrong. The younger child needs to be taught in no uncertain terms that hitting is never ok. So naughty step whatever. The older needs to be also told in no uncertain terms it's not ok to tease his younger brother like the , so remove play station or whatever when he does it. Just persevere till they both stop it. The punishment and handling is different for both and the older child is old enough to know better

[blackteasplease]

That's such a good answer bluntness and one I will bear in mind for my own children!

[Laralion]

Oh well they have their moments.

Things like looking through books together, ds2 will go and perch himself next to his brother when he reads. Throwing a ball to each other, they play hide and seek, playing with the garage, walkie talkies, chasing each other, crawling through the tunnel.

Playing together is limited because of the age gap but they do still keep each other entertained nicely (at times).

I'm constantly telling ds1 to stop winding the baby up. Ds1 is ok but maybe a little bit silly and immature.

[Laralion]

Yes you're probably right bluntness.

I think I baby ds2 still a lot, he's quite demanding and bad tempered. I make too many allowances for ds1 when it comes to this because otherwise I'm forever nagging him and probably feel a bit guilty because his brother is so time consuming.

[Laralion]

I've been doing that too raisins I say "do it nicely" and kind hands etc.

He's not really terrible, so far I've never had him do it to another toddler or anyone else, only me dh and ds1. Not that that's ok.

Ds1 isn't very nasty just a complete wind up merchant.

[BaconMaker]

20 months is definitely much too young for naughty step - he doesn't have the self control yet to stop himself lashing out - it sounds like you're doing the right thing by saying "no" firmly and putting him down when it happens - he'll eventually learn. Yes the older child is definitely old enough to know when he's deliberately winding up the baby - why does he do it? Is it for attention? Does he only do it when you're around? Does he enjoy taking responsibility for the baby - can you push the grown up big brother angle? Obviously when he does wind up the baby he should be told off/face a consequence too though.

[DizzyFizzyLizzy]

Toddler isn't hitting out of badness. He's just reacting. He's too young to be punished for it.

The older child is old enough to know better.

[WorraLiberty]

Ds1 isn't very nasty just a complete wind up merchant.

Then perhaps you need to spell it out to him that winding up a toddler is nasty behaviour.

Point out that he's four times the age of his little brother and let him know that from now on, you'll be punishing him for it.

[Laralion]

Thanks, kind of validated what I thought.

I've no idea why he does it and we've talked about it too

For example today toddler was annoying ds1 turning his programmes over. I was actually on the phone so didn't notice straight away what was happening. Then ds1 started teasing the toddler with the tv remote holding it just out of reach.

Once I realised ds1 was told off and talked to.

The way I said it is that the baby is too young to understand he's being annoying, and the as the older boy ds1 should have either told me, or simply put the tv remote completely out of sight and reach.

I asked ds1 what he thought he should have done and he knew the right thing to do.

Also explained how he's teaching his brother to be mean and spoke about how he was a baby once, how ds2 will grow out of it etc.

We have these conversations often.

He does sound nasty the way I'm saying it but he can be very kind too.

[bumsexatthebingo]

I think you need to up the supervision until the 8 yo can behave a bit more maturely. If your youngest was older I would say they should know better than to lash out but at 20 months I think it's too young to be having a conversation about better managing their responses to being taunted - you just need to be protecting them from it imo. If the 8 yo can't be left for a few mins while you make a phone call etc then you'll have to sit him with you until he can.

[Soubriquet]

I had this problem

Ds (younger one) would viciously attack older Dd if she took toys off him or stopped him doing something he wanted to do

I immediately told Ds off. I removed him off her, moved him away, told him no very firmly and then went and made a big fuss of Dd so he sees his actions is getting her attention not him.

I then told Dd off and told her not to take his toys. She's 3 so a lot younger than your boy who should get it much quicker

A few months later and they are actually getting in very well now. They play together, cuddles and everything.

She doesn't take toys off him anymore which means he doesn't lash out.

Occasionally she slips up but I tell her to give them back immediately and she does

Persevere. It does work

Ds is nearly 2 so would have been around 20 months when this behaviour started

[RTKangaMummy]

Does DS1 get much time without DS2 with you or with DH or both of you?

[Laralion]

Not recently.

I made loads of effort to when ds2 was first born but I haven't made the time to have some quality one on one time for a while.

I'm planning a day with him for half term though.

I did notice at bedtime tonight that they do play silly together, ds1 chasing and tickling his brother and ds2 was loving it as they often do, but then ds1 kind of doesn't know when to stop and wind down.

[Laralion]

Hank you for all the advice I have read all the posts.

[RTKangaMummy]

That sounds great OP

Perhaps try to give him a few mins each day together to read a book or watch TV or play Lego or a chat about school just you and him or DH and him or while DS2 is taking a nap or gone to bed

I was just looking at it from DS1 PoV that he might be missing some 1 on 1 time with you and/or DH

Or even some time or space for him to play with his Lego or watch TV or read a book or whatever he likes doing without DS2 interfering or trying to join in

So perhaps have DS2 in kitchen with you while you are washing up so that DS1 can watch TV without little brother making noise or getting in way of screen etc

I know DS1 has to not tease DS2 etc and learn to know when tickling or chasing games are too much and when he should stop

I agree with others the toddler must learn not to hit other people but not sure the naughty step is the way ATM, perhaps if you are holding him put him down and ignore for few mins and if you are in safe place, like at home, walk away from him so he learns that hitting people gets him no attention

Good luck OP