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To ask Constitutional Law experts their take on the Supreme Court ruling?

(90 Posts)
Greta84 Tue 24-Jan-17 09:42:31

Does that mean if MPs say no there will be no exit from the EU?

DoNotBlameMeIVotedRemain Tue 24-Jan-17 09:55:00

Yes it does. MP's might say no if there really wasn't a good deal for Britain on the table. Chances are we will still Brexit but this ensures there is proper debate in Parliament not just the government forcing their view if Brexit on the country good or bad. It's a great day for demecracy and an independent judiciary.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 09:56:35

The likelihood of MPs saying no is very very slim.

They are more likely to argue of the agreement than triggering article 50.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 24-Jan-17 09:58:08

The other significant ruling was that the devolved nations have no say. Wales/NI/Scotland are definitely not equal partners within the UK, just regions.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 24-Jan-17 10:00:26

Yes it does. MP's might say no if there really wasn't a good deal for Britain on the table

There won't be any deal on the table. MPs to vote on whether article 50 is triggered, not on what deal UK gets (as can't know that until negotiations concluded)

EurusHolmesViolin Tue 24-Jan-17 10:01:20

In theory, but in practice it seems unlikely in the current climate.

The one thing to be certain of it that it's a very, very good thing. The decision protects our rights and our parliamentary democracy. And remember that May was told by her lawyers months ago that she had no chance, and still decided to piss away public money on appealing. Imagine how much cancer treatment that would've paid for.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 10:02:23

There won't be any deal on the table. MPs to vote on whether article 50 is triggered, not on what deal UK gets

This is a point that many seem to be forgetting.

DoNotBlameMeIVotedRemain Tue 24-Jan-17 10:09:09

There will have to some sort of deal otherwise it would be leap in the dark which would be insane.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 10:10:58

There will have to some sort of deal otherwise it would be leap in the dark which would be insane

Yes there will need to be eventually, but that isn't what this judgement was about.

EurusHolmesViolin Tue 24-Jan-17 10:11:34

There will have to some sort of deal otherwise it would be leap in the dark which would be insane.

The latter premise, while correct, doesn't follow from the former.

Greta84 Tue 24-Jan-17 10:12:29

I guess parliament will need to know what the deal is to know what they are voting on? Or do they base it on the current climate and if we were to brexit what would happen. Then of course they would vote not to trigger Article 50.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 10:14:10

The vote is for triggering article 50. Nothing else.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 10:15:20

No one can vote on 'the deal' as negotiations haven't officially started and won't until Article 50 is triggered.

They are two separate things.

Boulshired Tue 24-Jan-17 10:17:14

There is probably going to be lots of amendments with article 50 only being allowed with all MPs debating the terms of Brexit.
I do worry that this will lead to carnage for the Labour Party, labour brexiteers and labour remainders will both feel let down whilst labour MPs get splinters in their arses. This case just show how confident Cameron was in winning in the first place.

GraceGrape Tue 24-Jan-17 10:19:12

Yes, the issue of voting on the final deal remains problematic, as May has said Parliament can vote on it but she'll take us out of the EU with no deal at all if Parliament doesn't approve the deal offered. This effectively holds Parliament to ransom and makes a mockery of the whole process. I believe one of the amendments Labour want to table for the Article 50 Bill, is that Parliament must have a meaningful vote on the deal.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 10:21:06

A good commentator has just tweeted that May has lost but this will tear Labour apart.

I completely agree.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed Tue 24-Jan-17 10:26:06

I agree this result is more challenging for Labour

May has got her party into line the tories will always unite publicly apart from one or two

though it could lead to Corbyn stepping down lets hope

Figgygal Tue 24-Jan-17 10:28:51

Right outcome there we are a country of laws and they have now been upheld whatever that now brings.

What was Dave Cameron thinking when they drafted the referendum on those terms (other than fact they didn't have to design anything other than something that could fit on the back of a fag packet because they were sure it wouldn't go the way it did)

GraceGrape Tue 24-Jan-17 10:31:40

This again reiterates the problem of our FPTP system, esp for Labour. Some of the highest leave constituencies and the highest remain constituencies are held by Labour. That's why they are in such a muddle. But of course, the referendum wasn't constituency-based. PR would mean people felt that they get a valid vote for the party they feel best represents them. I am a remain voter in a leave constituency with a leave-voting MP. It makes me feel unrepresented, as I'm sure a leave voter in a remain constituency with a pro-remain MP would feel.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed Tue 24-Jan-17 10:33:04

its such a mess

I feel we have been let down by all MP's why did they not challenge the vote when it went to parliament, why were questions not raised before they should have looked into this more especially those leading the remain and leave campaign

Elendon Tue 24-Jan-17 10:45:39

May is walking on the same tightrope Corbyn is on regarding MP support. She does not have the full support of her party and she certainly doesn't have the support of big business. Corbyn couldn't give a damn. He's only in it for the glory (a bit like May really, they are both suited).

Complete and utter waste of the public purse for the government to pursue this and to what ends? Astonishing.

The only party to benefit from this will be UKIP, who stand for what exactly?

PigletWasPoohsFriend Tue 24-Jan-17 10:51:53

May is walking on the same tightrope Corbyn is

As far as the vote goes I don't think she is.

Tories do tend to rally together, even at the last minute.

Labour however don't and this will be a very big issue for Labour. Some of the biggest leave areas were Labour, but with very pro remain Labour MPs. This is compounded by the fact that Corbyn doesn't have the backing of his PLP.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed Tue 24-Jan-17 11:08:25

I think May does have the support of her party publically (of course behind the scenes they are fighting - do you really think Boris would have been chosen to be foreigner minister if he and his supporters within the party didn't hold some power) apart from one (Ken Clarke) they all supported government plans on the timeline for triggering article 50. One tory mp (after being criticised for supporting the government) has spoken about the need to have a second referendum Anna Soubry (who was great in the campaign)

Labour's problem is support of the party members which is at the moment overwhelmingly for Corbyn, elected MP's that is not the case and if he really cannot gain control over the infighting over Brexit he will possibly step down rather that have another leadership challenge. There is no doubt Keir Starmer is in the shadows waiting and would be a far better leader one who understands and is extremely experienced in negotiations that is what the labour party need now (it is what the country needs now) not a rebel mp party leader who's expertise is turning up at a rally and rebelling against his own party.

and of course for UKIP it is a win win situation it always will be while Corbyn is leading the party

Elendon Tue 24-Jan-17 11:54:37

Do people honestly believe that Tory MPs in constituencies that voted remain want to go the same way as Goldsmith? Most Labour MPs are in leave constituencies. Tristram Hunt jumped ship before this vote could take place. The LibDems must be celebrating today.

Elendon Tue 24-Jan-17 11:57:34

I think this ruling will presage a General Election.

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