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Males in female prisons

(439 Posts)
WankingMonkey Sun 15-Jan-17 17:25:47

I have noticed a fair bit of support for 'identification' over sex on MN. I am just wondering what peoples opinions are on males wanting into female prisons because they are 'trans'?

If possible, have a think, write out a reply...and [i]then[/i] read this

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/soham-child-killer-ian-huntley-9626220

As I have seen many defenses along the lines of 'noone would pretend to be a woman' and such. But here we have a clear example of this in action. And it is impossible to let 'some' do it and not others, isn't it. You can't make laws without clear boundaries of course.

I actually can't believe it has taken someone like Huntley to wake up a fair few of my friends, this is all over my facebook today with people suddenly u-turning on their previous stance...

M0stlyHet Sun 15-Jan-17 17:29:50

Well, I'm not a good test subject because (a) my position on this has been established for at least a year - prisons need to segregate on the basis of biological sex and (b) I know what the article's about already so wouldn't be finding it any "big reveal". But yes, think this might be "peak trans" for a lot of people.

WankingMonkey Sun 15-Jan-17 17:32:18

This was meant to be in AIBU also, so sorry about that..

SirVixofVixHall Sun 15-Jan-17 17:34:37

Agree that prisons need to be sex segregated, not feelings segregated.

AskBasil Sun 15-Jan-17 17:40:45

I think if you believe that all those other pervs have a basic human right to be in women's prisons, you can't suddenly decide that Ian Huntley is not a worthy recipient of basic human rights. That's the point of human rights, they are for everyone, including people we deeply despise.

My position has always been, that a woman is an adult human female and so men who claim they are women, do not have an automatic basic human right to be legally defined as women and legally treated as women. I have been supportive of finding an arrangement where transwomen can be housed away from other violent male prisoners to protect them from patriarchal anger about their failure to conform to male supremacist gender norms.

I have never supported throwing women under the bus by billeting transgender prisoners on them, particularly as so many transwomen (AKA male) prisoners seem to have been jailed for violent crimes and most women are jailed for non-violent crimes.

It will be interesting to see what the transcult response to this story is. I wonder if there's any truth in it.

AskBasil Sun 15-Jan-17 17:41:38

You can ask MN to move the thread across, Monkey, I think if you report your first post and do the request, they'll do it for you.

WankingMonkey Sun 15-Jan-17 17:44:37

Thanks. Just reported it smile

noeffingidea Sun 15-Jan-17 17:50:52

I agree, transwomen should not be allowed in womens prisons, unless they have had full gender reassignment and continuing hormone therapy.
The best solution is probably seperate wings or units for transwomen.
Regarding Huntley, I don't think there's any real possibility he will ever be transferred to a womans prison. There is no automatic right, each case is considered individually and I'm confident the people in charge know what they are doing.

WankingMonkey Sun 15-Jan-17 17:52:32

The best solution is probably seperate wings or units for transwomen.

This is the obvious answer to it all, but this is apparently 'othering' so not acceptable :/

todayitstarts Sun 15-Jan-17 18:13:41

Looking forward to seeing the verdict on reasonableness Wanking

ChocChocPorridge Sun 15-Jan-17 19:12:00

I was all set to say that you completely could decide this on an individual basis, and then Basil brought up human rights, and suddenly I'm stuck.

If we have to have a blanket rule, then no. Sex segregated is the only way. Prison is dangerous enough for all involved without mixing men and women together.

I think it would be better all round if there could be flexibility there though. Because there is a difference between a transwoman who never went through male puberty, who's not attracted to women, and a 45 year old who's had kids, and then decides they're a woman. There just is, and treating them differently is fine.

Trans wings are the best compromise I think - and it's all a compromise - because the real solution would be for people in prison to be safe.

LisaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 15-Jan-17 19:14:44

We will shortly be moving this thread to AIBU at the OP's request.

Trifleorbust Sun 15-Jan-17 19:18:55

Not this again.

WankingMonkey Sun 15-Jan-17 19:24:03

I think it would be better all round if there could be flexibility there though. Because there is a difference between a transwoman who never went through male puberty, who's not attracted to women, and a 45 year old who's had kids, and then decides they're a woman. There just is, and treating them differently is fine.

Completely agree with this. There is a huge difference, and one I think should be more prominent. As it stands, all are lumped intogether. Whereas transgender used to mean, those who have had hormones and a 'sex change' and such. Now the requirements are simply to 'feel like' the 'gender' of your choice.

Awwlookatmybabyspider Sun 15-Jan-17 19:26:26

WHAT!!!!!!!!. I Do not believe what ive just read. That disgusting specimen wants to escape from a life in HMP.
And little Holly and Jessica wanted to escape from his evil sick pervertes clutches, and Their families want to escape from the grief heartache and torment and bring their children back, but They know it can never happen. How damn dare he make out. Hes badly done to. Do the crime. You do the time.

hazeyjane Sun 15-Jan-17 19:28:03

There needs to be accommodation made for trans prisoners, transmen shouldn't be in male prisons and transwomen shouldn't be in women's prisons.

Wet the article, I thought this before the stuff about Ian Huntley

FiveGoMadInDorset Sun 15-Jan-17 19:29:35

He is Delusional if he thinks a woman's prison is cushier than a men's one

amispartacus Sun 15-Jan-17 19:30:05

As it stands, all are lumped intogether. Whereas transgender used to mean, those who have had hormones and a 'sex change' and such

So you'd be ok with someone who had had hormones and surgery?

kitnkaboodle Sun 15-Jan-17 19:30:25

Again with this ... sad

amispartacus Sun 15-Jan-17 19:33:43

* Because there is a difference between a transwoman who never went through male puberty, who's not attracted to women, and a 45 year old who's had kids, and then decides they're a woman. There just is, and treating them differently is fine*

What about those trans people who suppressed their feelings and tried to fit into the expectation of society but eventually took the decision to transition - with hormones and surgery? Because you may know that trans people haven't always been accepted in the past and many people suppressed their feelings?

WankingMonkey Sun 15-Jan-17 19:33:57

So you'd be ok with someone who had had hormones and surgery?

I think a separate trans ward is the best solution. But 'transsexuals' and 'transgender' with the meaning it has today are worlds apart, there is no denying that. One group deserve compassion and support. The other group are largely pervs latching onto a genuine cause.

TammySwansonxx Sun 15-Jan-17 19:34:27

There need to separate trans wings of male prisons. Even for your hypothetical TW who didn't go through male puberty etc.

And if you don't like that, then don't commit crime.

Feckitall Sun 15-Jan-17 19:35:39

I'm confident the people in charge know what they are doing.

yeah..riiight! hmm

amispartacus Sun 15-Jan-17 19:39:15

Maybe Huntley should be given feminising hormones and forced to undergo surgery if he feels so strongly.

And then transferred to a trans wing after surgery.

I suspect the idea of having such surgery would make him change his mind.

CherryChasingDotMuncher Sun 15-Jan-17 19:41:05

Why do people come on what is clearly a trans thread to moan about it being a trans thread? No one is forcing you to comment.

OP YANBU, aside from the fact that prisons should be segregated on biological sex, I deeply object to public funding being spent on affirming the feelz of a child killer.

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