Vendors have left tons of rubbish and possessions....(61 Posts)
I've posted on property too but thought maybe I could get some opinions here as well.... Apologies for such a long post but some background seems necessary as to not drip feed. Our vendors have been seriously hardwork through out the entire process. We live in a small town where everyone knows everyone at least indirectly. They chose a online estate agency who were stringing along the process of us putting in an offer so we ended up contacting the vendor directly. Turned out the agency were lying to the vendor too and they decided to cut them out. So from that stage of offer being accepted we have had no agent.
They are purchasing a vacant flat which is part of an estate, and is literally round the corner from the house we have brought from them.
Due to several delays with the top of the chain we eventually insisted they break the chain or we would pull out. We had been ready to exchange for 4 months by now and it was delay after delay with their purchase which we know via our solicitor on many occasions they were downplaying or outright lying about.
They finally broke chain and we exchanged before Christmas (22/12) with completion date for 6/1. We arranged to collect the keys at 1pm (a time they suggested). I understood that they were initially looking to move into their new purchase early and 'rent' it from their vendor until that purchase was completed. Therefore we assumed as they wouldn't be waiting on their keys that day it should be quite a smooth process.
However they didn't leave until 3 pm and have left 4 van loads of possessions and rubbish in the house and garden. The house was also completely filthy (think uncleaned loo, food in the sink...)
We have spent hours cleaning and packing the remainder of their stuff before we could start to move our own. Fortunately we are moving from a rented place so have the whole weekend. After several requests to come and pick up stuff first thing this morning, only one of the vendors arrived around midday. He is unwell and was unable physically to move items. So we loaded his van for him on 3 occasions and then moved last van load onto street in front of house to allow space for our items. When he returned we offered to load van again for him but he angrily announced he was taking no more of the furniture and we would need to dispose of it. Needless to say none of these items were on the fixtures listing to remain.
So now we have a van loads worth of rubbish and furniture outside of the house to dispose of...
We have now changed the keys as we don't trust the vendors at all and feel they may well have a spare set.
Now here's the point I guess... they've left a motor bike in our shed at the back of the garden. I fully expect they will want to come and pick it up as they've mentioned it several times. We gave them ample opportunity today but they didn't take it on any of the trips back. We feel like if they're willing to blatantly leave all of their old crap and point blank refuse to collect it then they can leave the motor bike too? We can't really stand off with them over the rubbish as it's literally in the street and we will need to move it. However I don't see why they should have the bike!
Am I being petty and angry? Is it worth the fued (they have moved very nearby and it's a small town - not that it seems to deter them from screwing us )? Any ideas on the legal standpoint?
Also they informed us today that they have moved into their new flat but not informed their vendor and they are not due to complete for another week. So they are basically squatting. I know they got the keys from the estate agents in order to have plumber in so I can only imagine they either intentionally left place unlocked so they could have access or they have had keys cut. Wondering whether we should do something with that information?!
I'm not sure that you can assume possession of the motorbike just yet as they appear to have made their intention to collect it clear.
From reading other threads on similar themes I would suggest organising to have the rubbish removed but keep every invoice and pursue the vendors at the small claims court. If you incurred any extra costs because of the delay to getting into your house and because of their stuff everywhere you could probably add that to your claim. If the mess they left behind could be described as excessive and you have to pay for professional services to help clear it up add it to the claim.
With the motorbike I would contact the vendor in writing or by e-mail immediately and say you want it removed within a very short time frame or you be charging storage fees. If they don't collect the motorbike, or choose not to pay for storage you will consider it abandoned and dispose of it yourself. Add costs or non-payment of storage to your claim.
Dobbing the vendor in for squatting is very tempting but of course it would be harder to peruse them in court if they lose the flat and you don't have an address for them.
Wtf is wrong with people! I'd hold their bike hostage until they get rid of all the other shite.
Or alternatively go with the above suggestion which sounds far more sensible!
Ok, you are on legally very dodgy gorund here.
I think, as I remember it from when my parents bought from a nigtmare vendor, that you cannot legally dispose of their stuff.
Do you have a ohine number for them? I would recommend texting them and saying - please confirm that you do not want any of the furniture or items left behind and that we can dospose of them?
When you get a text back saying yes, keep it, print it out, make sure you do not delete it.
The motor bike I would deal with separately.
Once you have the written permission to dispose of everything else, I woudl then write to them and give them notice to collect the bike.
If you do end up using/sellign the bike, the money belongs to them.
To be honest, I woudl ask your solicitor in writing (email is fine) what you position is over the bike.
You need to speak to your solicitor. They can sort this for you as it's now your property it's classed as fly tipping
Your solicitor is the best port of call for this on Monday morning. But I appreciate why you're asking over the weekend for peace of mind.
I'm sure someone will be along who can give you some proper legal advice, but in the absense of it....
I'd photograph everything that is left behind - including the motorbike - and then message them with photographs saying that all this is left behind and that they have until 9am on Monday (or whenever you like!) to have collected it, or you will make arrangements to have it disposed of and will bill them if that incurs you any costs and will keep any profits you make. If you've not moved your own stuff in, I'd also take photos of the mess they have left behind and tell them you are getting a cleaning company in and will be billing them for it.
I'd also be getting on to my solicitor first thing Monday morning.
If they have the logbook for the bike and you decide to keep it, couldn't they just report it as stolen?
I'd turf the motorbike out the front with all of their shite and tell them to come and collect it...all of it.
Be careful with the bike as they will have the log book, if you sell it without ownership it would be fraudulent and the sale would not be legal. I'd make it very clear that if it is not collected by x date it will be moved off your property to a potentially unsafe location. If you just refuse to give it back it would be theft ("to dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive"). Just being on your property is not enough to give you legal rights of ownership when you have full knowledge of who owns it.
steppemum really you can't dispose of their stuff? Haven't they sold it to you by leaving it in the house? I've disposed of loads of stuff my houses previous owner left - junk in the basement and a shelving unit we actually used for a couple of years first! They are breaching the contract surely by leaving stuff there?
Right, think we'll move the remaining crap back into house and get onto the solicitor Monday. I'm thinking we can try and use the bike as leverage, something along the lines of you can't have the bike till you take the rest of your junk!
As for the filthy state it was in... we have no cleaned. Took 6 people about 4 hours to get it all packed up and cleaned. I'm so angry!!
If the bike was parked on a road and was untaxed, and someone notified the police, what would happen to the bike? (not really a suggestion, just wondering really, since you'll need the shed space).
no, just because they left it behind you don't own it, unless it is listed in fixtures and fittings.
Of course mostly we assume that they don't want it and bin it, (like your old shelving unit) It becomes an issue when it is an item of value and they know it is there and want it, but have left it behind.
In my parents case it was several old cars sitting in the 'garden' One or two were very old/vintage/antique and they may have been worth money (although were rust buckets)
It took him 6-12 months to move them. We weren'e allowed to move them, sell them or even deliver them to his new house.
My parents took legal proceedings to force him to get rid, and I think we werwe granted leave to dispose if he didn't remove them by x date.
Fortunately the house was a falling down doer upper, and we were so busy with building work that the cars just sat between skips.
Honestly op I'd be very careful about anything like that to do with the bike without speaking to a solicitor, it could end up coming back on you more than them. They are taking the piss but I'm sure the law would side with them as they are the legal owners. I think the best thing you can do is tell them you will move it onto the street or something
The legal stance is that they have now sold everything to you. (I'm not a solicitor, by the way, but it is common knowledge that on completion you own everything left.)
However, that doesn't solve your issue - you still have the problem of what to do with all of the possessions left behind.
In your shoes, I'd write a letter (state that you are giving your solicitor a copy and any further communication should be through them, and that you expect them to bear the costs). Tell them that they have until the end of the week to remove ALL possessions. Make sure you change the key on wherever the motorbike is. It is your only bargaining point at the moment.
If they arrive to collect, insist they remove everything else first before letting them take the bike.
I haven't read the long initial post. There was loads of stuff including furniture left in the house I bought. Called the estate agent, the seller refused to anything so the estate agent arranged to have it all removed. Ring and ring the estate agents until they sort it out.
You cannot withhold their property, please ignore advice to do so. You may not dispose of their property unless you have their express permission eg the man told you he doesn't want it, fine, tip it. It's painful, but been there, done that, vendors left crap we had to dump.
This kind of thing is what you pay your solicitor for.
Yeah I don't want to get in trouble making a silly decision out of anger. Just feel so infuriated by the whole situation and how difficult they have made everything.
as it's now your property it's classed as fly tipping
I'd definitely get some legal advice, some of the info offered sounds a bit like opinion rather than expert views...You don't want to end up legally in the wrong, however much you are logically in the right...
mine the legal wonder of the bike is whoever is named on the log book, if op changes the key (which I expect would be quite costly anyway) the vendor could have her charged with vandalism, if she withholds it, they could have her charged with theft.
You need to speak to your solicitor. I'm pretty sure they will tell them if they don't remove it you can dispose of it and charge them the costs of disposal.
If it's a small village would it be worth leaving their crap there, with a big sign on it saying 'this belongs to Mr/s X who left this house in a disgusting state and are now flytipping. They live at x address' then all their friends and neighbours would gossip about them?! I would't date do this but I would want to....
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