Aibu to be too ashamed to admit that my "PND" had nothing to do with my baby.

[inthisway]

I have been on flouxitene since my youngest was born 14 months ago.

I have older children one of them has had a serious decline in her behaviour over the last 2 or 3 years. By the time younger dd was born it was really taking its toll.

She is in year 2 now and the school have asked refer her for assesment for things like autism and ADHD.

I am still convinced that part of the problem has been my inability to bond with her, it's hard to connect with her on any level. She's very clever but she just seems to be elsewhere when you talk to her. She tries to hug but puts her arms round your neck and squeezes so hard it hurts. I have bruises from her hugging. I actually have to stop myself flinching away automatically. She does things like jump from furniture in too of me which actually hurts - we just can't seem to get her to understand that these things hurt.

She has no friends, she wees herself , she bites her own arms.

I just feel like if I could get through to and just explain it would be ok but I just can't and actually I don't feel I want to try now. I'm sick of being hurt and even things like the way she keeps coming up really close and whispering in my ear then shouting just upset me .

I know that the pnd I had had nothing to do with my baby and everything to do with dd - I just feel awful admitting that. But now my gp wants to stop treatment for pnd because my baby is older but dd is just getting worse . I can't cope.

I know I have to just wait for the assessments but I'm too ashamed to admit that I just don't like looking after dd rather than having proper pnd.

Aibu to want to just try and carry on telling people I have pnd since the alternative is telling them I just can't look after a 6 year old.

[Catgotyourbrain]

I feel your pain. Been there with DS(10) who now has a diagnosis of ADHD. What I've learnt from years of denial and then trying to get help is to never refuse help. That goes for you and for dd. If school wants to refer that is a battle you won't fight (many do). The SN boards on here are full of wise women and sadly many have mental health problems from dealing with all this stuff.

I have found it useful to tell people in RL because sometimes I think they just don't have a clue how difficult it is. This is hard hard hard. Explaining to friends that (for instance) you're not just 'tired' but actually your DS has woken you twice nightly for the last six months and never goes to sleep until 11pm and no, it's not your 'routine' that's the reason takes guts. Start small. By telling the GP that DD has suspected neurodevelopmental problem, is very challenging and is worrying you and taking up a lot of headspace at the very least. This is toning to be ashamed of. If DD had a potentially life changing physical illness would you be ashamed of being depressed? This is what you hang on to. Having a neurodevelopmental problem like ASD or ADHD is challenging in a different way but still as valid, and for what it's worth you should get equal consideration for DD as any other disability.

[Catgotyourbrain]

Also briefly - do look on the SN boards for more detail - but it sounds like your DD has some sensory issues. Kids 'on the spectrum mix' will often have 'hyper' or 'hypo' sensitivity - often both: hyper meaning they are very sensitive to noise or touch (clothes for instance) and hypo meaning they can't 'feel' enough and seek more feeling to validate themselves (wanting tight hugs, loud noises, tight clothes). Educating yourself a bit about hat might make you feel a bit better and also help you with DD on where she needs more/less sensory things (like maybe ear defenders or toys she can fiddle with, or really tight hugs by arrangement rather than pouncing) - does hat make any sense?

[Catgotyourbrain]

So i'd ask for an occupational health referral as well as CAMHS - school can do both of these. OH can help with the sensory stuff

[Want2bSupermum]

DS has ASD diagnosis and is 3, 4 in Feb. he has hypo sensitivity and from when he was 18 months I had us in OT twice a week. It's been so worth it.

Be kind to yourself. Depression and other MH issues are very common in parents of disabled children (ASD is a disability). You have to take great care of yourself and your marriage/relationship.

[inthisway]

Thanks cat - she does hate clothes (I have to give her to get dressed to go to school it's a battle every morning that ends in screaming and tears).

She had kinetic sand for Christmas and she LOVES it she doesn't actually play with many toys but she had played with the sand for hours already.

[inthisway]

Do I need to do anything or just wait? Is there anything that can be done in the meantime about the weeing etc? Or is that all part of the same thing? I have googled autism and she does have some of the symptoms although her speech is fine and her learning is fine.

I don't think it sounds so much like ADHD which was the other thing the school had suggested just because she actually will sit for hours depending on her mood - ok not sure if that's a thing!

[MoggieMaeEverso]

You must feel like you're going crazy.

You're not - you're having a normal, rational response to an unbearable situation.

I've lived it and I can guarantee that after diagnosis and therapy, my child's behaviour improved one million percent. It's still tough but I no longer feel trapped, insane or out of control.

Make it a priority to get help for your DD. It will help all of you.

And no, of course you don't need to tell people you "can't look after a six year old"! That's not accurate. If you want to, you can say, "DD has additional needs which require a massive amount of extra energy, time and effort from me and I am bloody exhausted." To the people who you can trust, who will offer help and support and understanding. To everyone else, you don't owe them any explanation.

[inthisway]

What would be really great is just being able to say that she not doing it on purpose - if that makes sense . I have a massive bruise on my stomach ATM from her jumping on me did she mean to hurt me? Or when she wees all over the couch - was it actually an accident or could she just not be bothered to get up?

I know that sounds really selfish but I feel like I could deal with it more if I just knew if she meant it

[SoWorried2000]

Autism can manifest itself very differently in girls. Look up the checklist specifically for girls - you may find that your DD checks more of those boxes.

[Smitff]

Just reading your post. I don't have DC with these issues so nothing constructive or practical to offer. But I wanted to say that in many years on MN your post has struck me as the most brutal, raw and heart wrenching when it comes to dealing with children with SN.

I feel you have the answers you want and need already, you're just seeking permission - perhaps to not be a superwoman for the 7th year running. For what it's worth, you have my permission. You evidently have thought about your DD's situation a lot, you evidently feel tremendous guilt, you have other children. That's a LOT to be dealing with. Seriously.

For your sake and possibly DD's too, i think you should do what it takes to stay stable and functioning yourself in order to help DD move forward.

Good luck OP. Wish you very well.

[Nibledbyducks]

OP it will get better. I have four DC's, DS1 is 18 with Aspergers and dyslexia that wasn't diagnosed untill he was 11, DS2 is 16 with ADHD, DS3 is 15 with ADHD, DD is 10 and is probably somewhere on the autistic spectrum, all 4 hace sensory processing disorder. DS2 and 3 were diagnodes at 10. My sons lost their father to suicide 11 years ago and for a long time everything was put down to that so it took a long time to sort it all out.
It is normal to be stressed and depressed with this situation, you still need help and there isn't anything wrong with that, I'm back on antidepresants after 7 years depite everything gpoing fairly well at the moment. I don't work, my house is a mess, I'm going bankrupt, and do you know what?, I don't care! the people who care about us don't care either, and over the years I've learnt that they are the ones that truly count.
Take any help that is offered, even if it ends up being crap.
See if you can self refer to OT in your area, we can here.
Get on the phpone to the national autistic society, google sensory toys, get chewy tubes or necjlaces, get on to the SEN board her, you are not alone. There are thousands of us here with you.
When DS1 was in year 2 he alternated between breaking all his stuff, calling me a bitch, beating up his younger siblings, and crying because he hated everything. Today he is 18 years old, living with a friend of mine and paying his way and working full time as a community carer. You will get there too xx

[inthisway]

Nibbled -I have 5 other children. The second has dyslexia and the oldest has also struggled socially but now in secondary school has found a small group of friends finally. You son is giving me hope - at the moment this seems never ending.

[inthisway]

Smitff - yes I think I just need to know if I am crazy and overthinking it. I was shocked when the school spoke to me not because I disagree but because I had thought I was imagining the whole thing so couldn't believe someone else had noticed

[Catgotyourbrain]

OP with the focussing thing and ADHD - let me tell you now that even a paediatrician may not be up on this - it's actually a recognised part of ADHD that they seek immersion and when they achieve it they do indeed hyperfocus on something - like lego or a computer game or even a maths puzzler when a bit older. They crave it because it's so difficult to shut the noise of life out for most of the time - when they achieve it they stay there. A proper psychiatrist or psychologist with experience of ADHD will know this but I know so many kids whose parents have been told that 'little johnny' can do a jigsaw puzzle so he can't have ADHD.

Go in with your eyes open and specifically ask for assessment for both ADHD and ASD - sounds more likely ASD but they often gon hand in hand and girls don't get an ADHD diagnosis as often. Sounds stupid but CAMHS can be a bit thick and you need to say 'I want this assessment' in so many words.

There's a book called 'kids in the mix' I think you should read.

Also don't let anyone tell you she can make eye contact/cuddle/express emotions so she can't have ASD either - plenty on the SN boards will tell you about their autistic children who do those things.

I think you can give yourself permission to know that she doesn't mean it and can't at the moment control those things. Also give yourself permission to be a 'good enough' parent (look it up) Hoya re allowed to be annoyed and to find it frustrating. Maybe you can talk with her about fighting the difficult behaviour together - the behaviour so not 'her'

[MrsBobDylan]

It's good dd has been referred. My ds got a diagnosis of autism at 2.5 and even though I knew what it 'was' I still found getting hurt by him pissed me off and depressed me.

My son likes to squeeze,so I try to do some with him each day. I lean on him on the sofa or he likes pressure on his chest etc. I find if I seek him out early on in the day and do some active squeezing with him, it mostly prevents him finding me later to initiate something which hurts!

My ds is 6 and we parent him completely differently to our other two children. If he's angry, we find out what's making him feel that way and change it. We make the world fit his needs, rather than the other way round iyswim.

Today he has wet himself on my brand new sofa, completely out of the blue and purposely smashed his IPad.

He finds the festive season so full of change and all the visitors and new toys completely overwhelming so we were waiting for something like this. But tomorrow we will make him feel safe by surrounding him with familiar events, no visitors, no new toys etc and hope he doesn't ruin the other bloody sofa!

for you, it is hard.

[Italiangreyhound]

OP I have not got any advice really but did not want to read and run. I hope you get all the help you need.

[DailyFail1]

If she's actually hurting you, then she might also become a danger to the other kids. Please do talk to someone about this just so you get as much help as possible. Prev Neighbours have a child with autism who was also a danger to his sibling (he broke her ribs without meaning to) and now they have a live in carer for him.

[user1481490957]

Hi op, i work with autism and my little sister has ASD. The things you describe do sound very similar to autostic traits however autism is such a broad spectrum and these symptoms could be another condition all together. As for her speech and language being good, autism has many different functioning levels and some have full speech like my sister. Some speech can also deteriorate over time. I think you need to be honest with your GP, im sure they will be very supportive and lead you in the right direction e.g counselling and maybe even respite. I dont think your dd will purposfuly be doing these things to upset you. Does she wet herself in school? If so i doubt this would be on purpose as it can be very embaressing infront of other children, likewise it could be a 'behaviour' assosciated with her ASD. Every client with ASD is different. Keep pushing for screening and dont be so hard on yourself op.

[mummyto2monkeys]

Hi op, I have a nine year old son who is autistic and had similar issues which we have since worked through. With the throwing herself into your arms, your daughter is seeking proprioceptive feedback (deep pressure) which she finds calming and reassuring. We have bought weighted blankets, weighted lap pads, squeeze vests and we give our son a deep pressure massage when he is very overwhelmed. Our son still seeks deep pressure from hugs but not as roughly and to us its his way of showing he needs his weighted blanket/ deep pressure massage.

Autistic children have too much information coming into their brains at one time. They can be hyper sensitive to noises, smells, touches, brightness and as a result they can struggle to recognise when their body is sending the signal that they need to go to the bathroom. There can be different reasons for an autistic child to lose control of their bodily functions. Even at nine if my son is completely overwhelmed he won't recognise the signal that he needs to go to the bathroom. During the day he will go to the bathroom when he notices someone else is going. Often by this time he needs to go urgently so we do tend to remind him every so often.

A great resource for anything autism is the National autistic society.. //www.autism.org.uk

There is also a fantastic charity that support parents and children through childhood continence issues. I received a great deal of support through them and can thoroughly recommend contacting them via their helpline.

//www.eric.org.uk

I also agree that a referral to an occupational therapist is a great idea, we were enrolled on a parent/ teacher workshop teaching about the different sensory issues affecting children on the spectrum and given advice on the different resources/ tools we could use to help our son.

I have a link to the deep pressure massage that is really helpful with our son, I will post further down when my get it.

[mummyto2monkeys]

Here is a link to the deep pressure massage. I recommend this when your daughters stimming/ vocal stims are increasing showing that she is becoming more distressed.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=IT9NT6_mu-c

[MoggieMaeEverso]

OP - no she absolutely does not mean to hurt you. When she jumps into you, it's possible that she's seeking deep pressure. When you provide her with this deep pressure in other ways, the unwanted behaviour will stop.

Roll her in a blanket and play a game where you pretend you're making a hot dog. Show her how she can crawl between the couch cushions. Get her a weighted blanket. Get her a trampoline or crash pad.

Don't respond with anger. Show her you are sad and hurt when she jumps on you. Say, "you like that feeling, but it hurts mum, so I can't let you do that. Let's do this instead"

With the whispering and shouting, she may be unable to regulate or process sound. Again, show her safe and fun ways to work with sound. Get her headphones for when she becomes overwhelmed - sometimes kids shout and scream to block out noises that are unbearable to them.

I promise she is not doing it on purpose even though it may look like that. She can't express what she needs but once you meet those needs, she will shine and thrive.

[user1479745061]

My son, now 15, was diagnosed with Asperger's when he was 7 years old, and also with complex sensory processing issues. It does sound to me like this is what is going on with your daughter as some of what you describe is similar to my son at that age. My son is a lot calmer now - he used to spin, flap his hands, and bang his head off things all the time. I also used to dread his hugs as they were so painful - he would just grab me and squeeze incredibly hard.

I agree with what others have said about referrals to Occupational Therapy as well - they will be most helpful with the physical behaviours and will provide you with ways of making sure your daughter gets the sensory input she's craving in ways that are safe for her and for you.

It's good that the school can see that there are particular issues and are involved in the referrals. My son was allocated a Speech and Language Therapist who worked with him while we were waiting for his formal assessment, so you should see what help you can get while the referrals go through the system. You mention struggling to get her dressed for school - maybe they could relax any uniform policies so that she can wear clothes which are more comfortable for her - and reduce the getting dressed struggles for you both.

And yes, speak to your GP and explain what is going on, and how you are feeling. I have only one child, and found it all very stressful, so you really do need all the support you can get.

Take care of yourself. x

[differentnameforthis]

Google sensory processing disorder

[ShaffaShaffs01]

Hi,

I have heard of a charity funded organisation that Health Visitors can refer you to. It's called Home Start. It is run by a group of trained volunteers who are experienced parents who give up 2 hours a week for free, there are there to to help families who have children with behavioural problems and mothers who are suffering from any post natal depression or worse. They offer support, emotional and more like completing any odd jobs that you may have been forced to neglect because of PND.

Each council has it's own Home Start website.

Take a look, Speak to your Health Visitor. Maybe they could provide you some relief

Best,
Mum

[DonutParade]

I know some parents in your situation have found this book extremely helpful. www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0062270451/?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21