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To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

(461 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

ChristmasFuckOff Mon 19-Dec-16 23:28:28

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

Iambubbles86 Mon 19-Dec-16 23:31:38

Even if there is someone who has absolutely nobody else in the world you can bet it still affects the person who finds them in the aftemath

AVirginLitTheCandle Mon 19-Dec-16 23:31:41

I don't think YABU.

I also think that if someone genuinely can't bear living any more then it would be selfish of that persons friends/relatives to expect them to carry on just for them.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Mon 19-Dec-16 23:32:34

Mt mum had an awful relationship with her father, he sexually abused her from a tiny tot until she married my dad but his suicide still devastated her and other members of our family, the ripples of it are still felt 50 years on.

AVirginLitTheCandle Mon 19-Dec-16 23:32:46

But what if you make sure your body can't be found bubble? Like say, if you jump off the golden gate bridge and your body gets swept away.

ClementineWardrobe Mon 19-Dec-16 23:33:08

Hello, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you are feeling this way. If someone takes there own life when they have no good relationships, then they'll never ever get the chance to change that fact. I hope things improve for you.

Iambubbles86 Mon 19-Dec-16 23:33:32

That said I'm still not sure its selfish as I think to be selfish you have to be aware that what you are doing is selfish iyswim and I think most people who commit suicide truly Dont realise potential impact

pipsqueak25 Mon 19-Dec-16 23:34:16

having been suicidal in the past i didn't feel anything when i was taking the od, let alone worrying about friends and family.
with some people it's a cry for help, mine wasn't and i wanted to die. a horrible situation for wveryone concerned.

helpimitchy Mon 19-Dec-16 23:35:15

YANBU for some people it's a logical step.

Iambubbles86 Mon 19-Dec-16 23:35:26

virgin what if someone walked by and saw, that person would be affected. There is no way I can think of to guarantee nobody would know and nobody would find the body

AllOfTheCoffee Mon 19-Dec-16 23:35:39

I disagree.

An accquiantance of mine commited suicide. We hardly knew each other. I had her number in my phone from when we worked together briefly. I accidentally texted her instead of my dad one day begging a lift because I sprained my ankle. She immediately replied and insisted on coming for me.

I've never forgotten that moment of kindness from her. I did care about her and I would have helped her if she'd reached out to me. I barely knew her. I have no idea if she had family or close friends but I would have been there. I still wonder what would have become of her if I'd made more of an effort to get to know her.

There will people you have had a similar impact on. Small acts that you've forgotten that have left their mark on them. They will care, they would want to help.

Please contact the Samaritans.

WorraLiberty Mon 19-Dec-16 23:36:02

It annoys me when I hear people saying 'so and so was selfish because they committed suicide'.

I think most people who kill themselves, are not in a frame of mind to see past their own pain. So rather than a 'selfish' act, I would say it was a desperate act.

However, having said that. It will nearly always affect someone else, but often the suicidal person can't see that or think that way.

For example, at the very least it will affect the person/people who finds the body. Or the person/people (if any) who ends up paying for/attending the funeral.

So I can see both sides.

Sorry things appear to be bad for you OP thanks

NotStoppedAllDay Mon 19-Dec-16 23:36:28

As an ex police officer I can assure you it's totally devastating and ruins lives of those left behind. Sorry, but yes, I think it's in some cases selfish. There's a huge huge knock on effect from it

Most bodies are found though. It's always traumatic.

NotStoppedAllDay Mon 19-Dec-16 23:38:17

Yes op, the Samaritan are great. Consider calling them

WorraLiberty Mon 19-Dec-16 23:38:36

But what if you make sure your body can't be found bubble? Like say, if you jump off the golden gate bridge and your body gets swept away.

It's impossible to make sure of that.

Someone could see you jump, or the body could be found washed up somewhere.

Iambubbles86 Mon 19-Dec-16 23:39:42

Sorry just to clarify my stance - I Dont think op is unreasonable, I fully believe in autonomy and that if someone wants to end their life its their choice and that selfish is the wrong word to describe that act. But I disagree with the op statement that its not selfish in cases where nobody is there to be affected by it because its likely that in every case someone somehow is affected

Pluto30 Mon 19-Dec-16 23:40:57

It's not selfish to commit suicide.

Yes, there will be people left behind who are devastated. But that's the case in almost every death, regardless of the circumstances.

(I'm a police officer too, but one with a different perspective to the person above, evidently...)

IvorHughJarrs Mon 19-Dec-16 23:41:02

One of the problems is that when someone is making that decision to end their life they are often not able to see clearly if their death will cause devastation or not. I lost a very dear friend to suicide a while back, I know she genuinely thought that her family and friends would be better off without her but we aren't, especially her children who will always suffer the repercussions of it.
Even those who are sure they won't be missed might be wrong

FranticalFidget Mon 19-Dec-16 23:41:38

It's so difficult and I've seen both sides of it.

I don't think the person committing suicide is deliberately intending to be selfish at all. In fact in some cases I'm sure they are absolutely convinced they are 'helping' others by not being a burden, it would be better if they weren't here etc.

But the devastation left behind, especially if they have children, is immense. And that does make it a selfish act.

It's essentially passing on the pain.

latika Mon 19-Dec-16 23:43:18

I hate the term 'commit' suicide. People commit crimes like rape or murder.

My thoughts on suicide is when someone is considering it they don't see the options that are available that your or I might see. They feel that the loss of their life will ease a burden on those around them, the depths of their despair and pain means they can't believe the people love them. Their thoughts aren't logical, they can't see a way out of the hole they are in and can't possibly understand the devastation that will be left behind.

haveacupoftea Mon 19-Dec-16 23:43:53

I knew a teenage boy who killed himself. I only met him briefly and he lived in a different country. But he still crosses my mind quite a bit. I would have helped him, if i'd known. You never know who cares enough to help you, lots of people who you might not even consider.

As for whether you consider it selfish or wrong, those are personal opinions. One thing I do know is that suicide is always desperately sad.

JenLindleyShitMom Mon 19-Dec-16 23:44:37

I think you're a sucidial person trying to get people to back up your justifications for it so that you can feel better about doing it (and I do get why) when really you need to be seeking professional help right now OP. thanks

LucieLucie Mon 19-Dec-16 23:48:30

People have no idea how horrid it is for suicidal people to exist every day. Every waking minute of every day feeling empty, lost, pain with no one to reach out to or understand. Often suicide is done as a logical answer to a multitude of problems.
But yes, I agree the pain released from that person is simply transferred over to family members.
Everyone should be kinder, more helpful, supportive and inclusive and maybe less people will feel suicidal.
Not everyone has wonderful families and close friends. Some of us have no one.

DJBaggySmalls Mon 19-Dec-16 23:53:51

YANBU. I'm in favour of elective euthanasia. I know a woman who died of Huntingdons. She lived in terror after her diagnosis to the day she died. Her family wouldn't help her go to Switzerland or Holland to a euthanasia clinic..
I can think of a famous celebrity who died miserably buy his own hand. He was described as not being in his right mind, but I disagree - he had a severe illness and no hope of recovery. If had been permitted to use a euthanasia clinic it would have been far more dignified for everyone.

ChristmasFuckOff Mon 19-Dec-16 23:54:39

There is no help. I'm fine. I'm not in extreme pain, right now. I'm just very tired and feel like a rat in a wheel. I have no interest, and nobody would be affected - if I did anything, which I'm not going to do.

I have no children. I am not close to family. I have a partner but it can't go anywhere. Yes, I'm fairly sure I've left small human imprints on people's lives here and there, but that's not enough to balance out the complete lack of meaning my life has otherwise.

I'm disabled, facing homelessness, have not enough income. There is nobody who can help me with all these problems I need to solve just to stay alive and well. To be honest, why should anyone help me? Thousands of people die everyday, who ARE loved and mean something.

I should have died many years ago, I survived and it's been nothing but a struggle. I've no way of improving anything. And no - I'm not suicidal tonight, I'm contemplating that's all. Tonight I'm far too interested in eating my dinner when it's done.

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