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Illegal Xmas day

(41 Posts)
Boomerangs Tue 22-Nov-16 13:32:40

I'm attending an Xmas Funday organised by a local baby group but I'm Starting to believe it's all a bit dodgy.
For months now the girl organising has been contacting local businesses asking for donations for the raffle. Places have been extremely generous. Restaurants, gyms, soft play have donated free passes, free meals etc.
Yesterday tesco donated around £100 of stuff including 4 digital ear thermometers. These have now been put on the baby group Fb page to be sold and for the proceeds to go back into the Funday. Aibu to think that is a bit much?
There is no charity aspect to any of this they are charging £3 for entrance 100 have already bought tickets, there are stalls people are holding selling stuff like homemade cards, these stall holders have had to pay to do this.
The event itself is in a working men's club there will be a bouncy castle and a few activities. It just seems like there is so much money being thrown at this it's not going to cost what she is making I think if she is making a profit she should say so and be upfront about it or state she is donating it to charity.
I have looked into this and i think it may be illegal plus she is advertising it on Facebook isn't there rules about raffle tickets etc? Would I be unreasonable to report to somebody!

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties Tue 22-Nov-16 13:39:33

It is a bit off to procure raffle prizes and then not hold a raffle confused but I don't think you can report it. Why not ask the organisers where all the money raised will be going? Will the proceeds go into the local baby group or to charity?

EdithWeston Tue 22-Nov-16 13:41:15

Yes, there are rules about raffles - what do you think she's doing that might breach them?

And it's perfectly OK to ask for donations to good causes that are not charitable, such as one-off community party.

What is your estimate if the overheads? How much surplus do you think there's going to be?

StereophonicallyChallenged Tue 22-Nov-16 13:42:46

Organisations need a licence from local authority for permission to sell raffle tickets etc I think. Only about £20 per year where I am, and lots of groups etc have them! Also, is the group affiliated to a school/nursery/church or anything, as those type of organisations will have a charity no. even if the babygroup doesn't.

Fwiw I would assume that funds raised go back into the babygroup for play equipment or whatever it costs to run the group! It sounds normal but you could always ask what it's in aid of if you feel strongly smile

atticusclaw2 Tue 22-Nov-16 13:43:19

Are the raffle tickets being sold in advance? If so then it is a small society lottery and has to be registered. there is a fee to pay and there are rules around how it is run. You are unable to runa raffle for private gain

RaspberryOverloadTheFirst Tue 22-Nov-16 13:43:53

There are rules about raffles, take a look at your local council website. If this event was for charity, then it's not too much to start asking questions.

And having organised events myself, companies that donate items do like to have some recognition, and for items to be raffled as expected.

This person may find themselves in hot water if it's not all above board.

mintthins Tue 22-Nov-16 13:44:03

Someone tried to pull a stunt like this in our village a few years ago. It was to be held in the church hall. After someone pointed out that it was none of the things they had been telling people it was (i.e. for a SN playgroup and father christmas) the church withdrew the let. No one else would let them rent space till they eventually conceded that they would allow an audit to show they would now be giving all proceeds to the playgroup. Even that didn't stop the organiser bitching all over the local FB community page about how everyone was just being mean spirited trying to stop her earning money!

StereophonicallyChallenged Tue 22-Nov-16 13:44:22

Oh, and regarding reselling donated goods; I think if the point is to raise maximum funds from donations then it often makes more sense to sell iyswim!

RaspberryOverloadTheFirst Tue 22-Nov-16 13:45:06

Raffles that are held and drawn on the day don't need a licence, this is for raffles where tickets are sold in advance.

mumonashoestring Tue 22-Nov-16 13:46:34

YANBU to wonder about it - but events like this often do cost more than you'd think to run, especially if for example you're catering for people and don't already have the kit to do so.

So, if I hired one large room in our local community centre/working mens club hall in the daytime it would cost £20 per hour - I'd have to pay for the time I was using the hall, plus the time it would take for everyone to set up (couple of hours), and to break everything down and clean up afterwards (couple of hours if you're lucky). I'd then have to pay extra if I wanted to use the kitchen and serving hatch for refreshments. Then you'd pay anywhere between £50 - £100 to hire a bouncy castle and possibly have to pay a damage deposit on top of the hire charge. If there wasn't room for the stalls and the bouncy castle I'd have to pay to hire another room... That's your £300 ticket money gone, more or less, without starting to think about bringing in any additional entertainment (face painting, lucky dip stall gifts etc) or catering of any kind.

She does need to be careful about deducting money from raffle proceeds, incidental lotteries (e.g. held in connection with a one-off event like a fete or fair) don't require a license under gambling commission regs as long as they comply with section 4 of this:

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 22-Nov-16 13:48:21

Yesterday tesco donated around £100 of stuff including 4 digital ear thermometers. These have now been put on the baby group Fb page to be sold and for the proceeds to go back into the Funday

What price are they selling them for? I'd be tempted to let the Tescos know that the items are being resold.

I would also be asking questions about where the money is going in a non aggressive way "hi Hun, its awesome all these prizes we are getting donated, is all the money going to the baby groups or is some going to charity xxx"

And I'd be asking where I could buy one of the raffle tickets!

OOAOML Tue 22-Nov-16 13:54:42

I'm assuming most supermarkets are the same, but I know when I have contacted them on behalf of our parent council they have a budget for community engagement and it is pretty much first come first served. Is the event to raise funds for the baby group? When you say there's no charity aspect, are you suggesting the event is to raise money for the organiser, or to raise money for a group which is not a registered charity? Raising funds for the group would be fine, but are you suggesting she's trying to personally profit?

Our school has had events where stallholders have paid a fee for a stall, and people pay entry money - that's fine I think, some of it goes to pay the running costs (which can be surprisingly high) and some goes into funds to buy stuff for the school. What I do think is off is selling goods donated for the raffle. As others have said, she needs to be careful with the rules for raffle promoting. I'd also be interested to know if there is public liability insurance.

mum11970 Tue 22-Nov-16 13:56:56

Just ask them where the proceeds are going. If it's being organised by the baby group I would assume the profits would go to that group to cover the buying of new toys, trips for the kids, etc.

Bluntness100 Tue 22-Nov-16 13:58:43

People do organise these events for money and that's not dodgy unless they say it's for charity or something and it's not, its perfectly acceptable to organise it for a profit.

the local businesses Could easily be donating for the benefit of advertising to the local community.

If you're that concerned ask the question if it's a for profit event or if it's charitable.

TheCakes Tue 22-Nov-16 14:00:21

Is the money not getting put back into the playgroup, to buy toys, biscuits etc? If not it's a bit off.

ShowMePotatoSalad Tue 22-Nov-16 14:05:36

Ooh this is weird. Investigate. Hope this person isn't trying to make a personal profit from a fun day. Bizarre that there is no charitable element to it, or transparency about what profits will be used for.

BTW when I saw your thread title I was convinced you were going to say you hate Christmas so much you want to make it illegal. grin grin grin

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties Tue 22-Nov-16 14:13:14

Ha ha, Christmas would go underground, potato, turkeys and Christmas trees on the black market. grin

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Tue 22-Nov-16 14:14:37

Are there costs to be covered, such as hire of the venue and bouncy castle?

I would ask where the profit is going TBH. It's not wrong or illegal to organise an event for personal profit, so long as you don't lead people to believe otherwise.

However, if somebody was asking me, or the company I worked for, to make a donation for a raffle at a community event, I'm sure I would be expecting the community to benefit from the proceeds rather than one individual.

c3pu Tue 22-Nov-16 14:15:10

Sounds like she is straying into fraud territory... obtaining goods by deception perhaps?

Police could well take a dim view of this.

Insidevoice Tue 22-Nov-16 14:46:43

Is the playgroup a constituted community group with its own bank account? If not, it should be - it would at least offer a little protection and transparency, both for the group and the individual dealing with the money.

I can't quite work out the extent of your involvement in the playgroup and it's organisation op, do you honestly have the full picture? Because it's horrible when one person does all the work for a group or event, and people on the periphery who have done fuck all to contribute start whispering about their motives. That's not to say you are wrong in this case, you just don't seem very well informed to be passing judgements.

Organising events IS an expensive business. Venue hire, advert in the paper, bouncy castle hire, printing and paper costs, buying raffle tickets, buying stocks of tea and coffee and refreshments to sell, gifts/prizes and wrapping paper and decorations, cash floats for the stalls... you could easily clear £300.

Personally I have no issue with selling raffle prizes, drives me potty when a community group collects hundreds of pounds worth of prizes then sells a hundred raffle tickets at a £1 each with all the leg work involved angry

MackerelOfFact Tue 22-Nov-16 14:48:24

I would wonder what these businesses are being told to get them to give away such generous prizes. Tesco in particular don't need to raise their profile in the community by giving away free stuff, do they?

Could you (publically, ideally) approach her under the guise of knowing someone who might be interested in donating a prize, but wanting information about what the money raised will go towards before you ask them? (Although even if she say she's donating it to X charity, there's no way of knowing if she actually does).

Boomerangs Tue 22-Nov-16 14:48:36

There is definitely no money going to charity it's all going back into the baby group buy it's a group that meets once a week in the basement of a pub with a small handful of people attending it's not like 200 people at stay and play.
I would have No problem if she was making a profit but it seems the way she obtained the donated prizes was by making out it was all in aid of a bug support group for mums who have depression etc. There is a fb group with over 1500 members but these people won't benefit from the actual group unless they go.
All the money people have been paying has been into her personal PayPal account too.
Just seems a bit much selling off donated items.
Also she is selling raffle tickets beforehand over Fb

baconandeggies Tue 22-Nov-16 14:50:38

Someone here does a massive baby fair in aid of "charity". When all is paid (including the handsome wage to herself) the charity gets peanuts...

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties Tue 22-Nov-16 14:53:37

I'm surprised big companies like Tescos don't ask for some proof of charity/community fundraising before throwing donations at people. Surely that would be open to abuse?

I'm considering phoning Tescos and asking for my next online shop to be donated. grin

ShowMePotatoSalad Tue 22-Nov-16 14:54:31

Oooh dear. This does not sound good.

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