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Ex refusing I return 3yo after contact

(145 Posts)
Mooey89 Sat 05-Nov-16 17:24:09

Contact 10-4 Saturdays. No overnights due to catalogue of concerns re home environment/domestic abuse
Waiting for court on Dec 5th.

Went for contact today, due home at 4, text saying he is keeping him overnight will return him tomorrow at 6 and there is nothing I can do about it. DS hadnt stayed overnight there for 6 months. He left this morning thinking he would be coming back to me after.

Police can't do anything without a court order.
He's also stopped maintenance this month to 'punish' me.

He's such a cunt.

Mummaaon Sat 30-Mar-19 15:06:06

@MakeItRain thank you so so much. It's been months of upset and stress, getting too old for this now! Just want to be settled. It's nice to hear things get better. It has to.
X

MakeItRain Sat 30-Mar-19 14:52:45

Just as long as you present yourself calmly and politely in court and only refer to provable concerns you'll be fine. Offload onto friends about the frustrating things. I had years of tension but it's finally calming down now the children are older. I also found that being polite and reasonable in all my communications with him used to take the wind out of his sails.

It seems impossible at the time but you'll get to the calm point too flowers

Mummaaon Sat 30-Mar-19 10:57:33

@MakeItRain that won't be good for me then as I feel manipulated by him I can't even look at him - his Instagram is full of abuse and open to trolls throwing hate towards me most of whom
Have never met me. It's no wonder I'm feeling so vulnerable

MakeItRain Sat 30-Mar-19 09:46:54

It is a shame but it gets so emotional and difficult while it's happening. It's easier to disengage and be as polite as you can and not respond to all the untruths except to calmly/briefly say it didn't happen. I remember being so drained and stressed having to read all sorts of rubbish about me but in hindsight just the hard facts and a clear sense of the best outcome is the best thing to focus on. Hope it goes ok - the courts also like to see you are able or willing to communicate with each other. They seem to take a dim view of "warring couples" no matter how much you're having to go though.

Mummaaon Sat 30-Mar-19 09:09:43

@MakeItRain thanks for the tips. I feel I always put her first and I'm keen for her to have a relationship with her dad and the amount of time grows as she gets older. And yes re facts in court, funny you say that as he has said all sorts of stories and fabricated lies where as I have hard facts - it's all such a shame and unnecessary

Mummaaon Sat 30-Mar-19 09:07:50

@RandomMess wow they can do that?

MakeItRain Sat 30-Mar-19 08:52:25

Oh and there are all sorts of restrictions on what you can actually present in court too, so your solicitor would need to advise you on this. Good luck flowers

MakeItRain Sat 30-Mar-19 08:49:50

I'm glad things settled down Mooey89. Mummaaon in court you need to present your case with a sense that you absolutely put your child first. (Which it sounds like you are doing)

Unless there has been proven abuse against your child it's not likely that contact won't be ordered with the baby's dad. So you just need to state that you need assurances that he won't drink/that he will cooperate with you, so that you know that contact is safe.

The courts might well take a dim view of you witholding contact so it would be good to give your solicitor a list of dates of any proven concerns that would give strength to your decision to withhold contact. (Police involvement for eg, or dates you sought professional advice eg by phone or email - eg the HV if you've discussed this with her/him)

In my experience the court process can be nerve wracking but they're much kinder if they see that your concerns are always about your child and also that you are willing to promote contact as long as you can be guaranteed that it's safe.

I had a huge paper trail of concerns and involvement from other agencies and I think this was key really in supporting my case in court. From the court's point of view, you are two strangers who could walk in there and tell a whole bunch of lies. All they're interested in are proven facts. So they won't listen to "he was always drunk" but they will listen to "on x date I called the police and spoke to x officer as he was drunk and I was scared" with any related paperwork.

RandomMess Sat 30-Mar-19 08:45:43

With CO contact insist on the power of arrest being attached to it so the police have to intervene if he fails to return. Otherwise they fob you off with it being a civil matter.

Mummaaon Sat 30-Mar-19 08:26:30

@Mooey89 I feel
He took her to set me up as he knows me stopping contact will look bad on me in court. But I'm offering contact now in a centre but court only days away anyway. It's just so stressful. He is the victim he believes and I know we cannot dwell on his actions during marriage (alcoholic, mentally abuse and he cheated) my focus has to be on what's right for baby
Yep got solicitor so as long as he provides undertakings he will return her and no drink etc then hopefully we can get a start on something and move forward

Mooey89 Sat 30-Mar-19 07:28:32

I think as long as you are offering contact in some form (contact centre) that’s ok, but make it regular and structured - weekly?
That way it’s safe and you are promoting contact. Good luck, do you have a solicitor?

Mummaaon Sat 30-Mar-19 06:22:21

@Mooey89 amazing you replied thank you!! Yep my ex took her as planned for the day (he had her twice a week) and then refused to return her. So I stopped all contact - it's been 9 weeks since then and I'm concerned courts next week will take a dim view on me for my decisions but what choice does a mum have! He has seen her three times recently in a contact centre x

Mooey89 Fri 29-Mar-19 19:26:51

@mummaaon
Sorry you're in this position.
The police weren't interested.after he didn't return him, my solicitor stopped contact until we went to court in a few weeks time.
Eventually in court he got every other weekend but I got a live with order and he signed an undertaking agreeing to return him on time following every contact.

Things still aren't ideal but court did help me set firm boundaries and DS is happy and settled.
Good luck.

Mummaaon Fri 29-Mar-19 19:18:02

@Mooey89 I'm sure you don't even use
This thread anymore since it was few years ago but trying my luck as im in your situation right now so I'm keen to hear of the outcome and what was the courts thoughts?

MaureenMLove Tue 08-Nov-16 16:46:03

Neglect is abuse according to the Children's Act of 1989.

It states quite clearly that there are 4 catagories of abuse. Physical, Emotional, Sexual and Neglect.

Neglect is the term used for maltreatment, which imho, leaving a child in a shitty nappy all night, most certainly is.

SerendipityPhenomenon Tue 08-Nov-16 16:29:11

Recordings can be admissible in court, it's just that they're not automatically admissible. So in future it is worth making them.

MyGiddyUncle Tue 08-Nov-16 16:23:22

at what point does leaving a 3 yo in his own soiled nappy all night, and not washing him, cease to be neglect and become abuse? How many times does it have to happen before SS agree it's physical abuse?

There's a fine line between poor living standards and actual neglect or abuse.

Neglect is neglect - leaving a child in a dirty nappy overnight is neglectful, not child abuse.

Having dinner, breakfast and toothpaste on his top or washing him in a sink rather than a bath is neither neglect or abuse.

None of this sounds enough for the Courts to stop unsupervised access OR overnights IMO.

emmyhNL Tue 08-Nov-16 15:55:36

I'm glad that DS was returned without hassle. Has there been anything after his out of sorts behaviour on Sunday afternoon? Is he back to normal?

When is the next visit due?

Soubriquet Tue 08-Nov-16 13:39:47

They probably hear that 10 times a day OP.

They will know how to deal with that threat

Mooey89 Tue 08-Nov-16 12:55:25

According to my solicitor Ex emailed her at 8pm on Friday stating that he is going to sue their firm for harassment!

WickedGirl Mon 07-Nov-16 18:02:07

How is your son today? How are you doing? Are you ok?

Mooey89 Mon 07-Nov-16 17:03:31

I really, really wanted to go over there, but it wouldn't have achieved anything - he wouldn't have let me in and it would have upset DS.

Rockingaround Mon 07-Nov-16 09:20:11

Omg just caught up with this OP,
I felt sick to my stomach reading about your sons night, no nappies and staying up so late shock. I would never let him go to see his dad again, the absolute best I would offer is to meet him at the park to feed the ducks one a week, as I do think it's important he has a relationship with his dad. I just couldn't trust an unsupervised visit as he sounds unhinged and I wouldn't know what he could be capable of. It must've been so so scary, I don't know how you didn't go around to his house on Saturday night. I'd have had to go and get him.

PoldarksBreeches Mon 07-Nov-16 09:05:59

Thumbwitch
It is neglectful parenting. No doubt. But children's services would expect the mother to stop contact. Only if she is unable or unwilling to do so would they step in.

ThumbWitchesAbroad Mon 07-Nov-16 08:52:45

Aeroflot - really not trying to be snarky, but at what point does leaving a 3 yo in his own soiled nappy all night, and not washing him, cease to be neglect and become abuse? How many times does it have to happen before SS agree it's physical abuse? Really interested in the answer, as I said, not being snippy.

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