To think this is a ridiculous use of detention?

[oldbirdy]

Ds (year 8) got detention today. He was 3 minutes late for school. This was the first time he has been late; he goes with a friend and the friend's mum hadn't realised the car would need de-icing. I assume this is done kind of zero tolerance but to me it devalues detention as I have had to tell ds it doesn't matter, and he thinks it is stupid. I would have wanted detention to make him feel a bit ashamed of himself and for something that was significant. If he was very late, or had been late a number of times, fair enough...

[monkeysox]

Even one minute late results in 30 minutes detention here. An hours pay would be docked in a job if employees are late.

[Pemba]

Maybe so, but the reason for lateness wasn't under the boy's control, was it? Seems a bit OTT of the school to me, and like you say OP, 'devalues' detention as a punishment that kids would take notice of. But it's not a major thing, don't let him get upset about it.

[WLF46]

It's a good way for your child to learn that there are consequences of not abiding by the rules. More than that, to learn that life isn't fair - you do get punished for things that were not your fault. In my old job you'd be deducted money for being late, rounded up to the nearest 15 minutes. No excuses were acceptable, so if the bus was late, or if you'd stopped to check a pensioner who had keeled over in the street was alright, tough - you should have made allowances to arrive in plenty of time, no matter what. (It wasn't a nice place to work, by the way.)

[oldbirdy]

Exactly Pemba; it has made my Ds think detention is stupid. How can I 'back up' the school on this? He had no control over this, unless he had started screaming at his friend's mother to hurry up or something, which in my view would have been much more something I'd have laid into him for!

[AfternoonTeaBus]

Wow, that's a bit harsh, both the detention and people being docked for being late. Agree that it is one of those life isn't fair lessons.
Don't understand why a teacher would want to waste their time on something so trivial.

[cricketballs]

"Wow, that's a bit harsh, both the detention and people being docked for being late. Agree that it is one of those life isn't fair lessons.
Don't understand why a teacher would want to waste their time on something so trivial."

But this is the reality in work for thousands and thousands of people; no matter the reason, if you are late you are docked wages. If you are late for school you suffer the consequences (every school I have worked in will give concessions for a road accident that can not be avoided), but for defrosting a car - not a chance given that all the weather forecasts stated that we would have a frost

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

It seems extreme to me for an 8 year old. 12 year old maybe, but most 8 year olds aren't making their own way to school. Here after a couple of occasions of a few minutes late it would be a chat with the parents.

[Leslieknope45]

He's not 8. He's 12 or 13

[Walkerbean16]

slightly year 8 means he would be 12/13.

It does seem ridiculous when he has never been late before.

[Pemba]

IMO work, and docking wages, is a totally different thing. If someone arrives late at work and then is docked 15 mins pay or whatever, it is not a 'punishment' as such. The situation is that you as a worker have agreed to sell them your labour for that 15 mins and receive wages in return. But if you are not available in those 15 minutes to do that work, then fair enough they don't pay you. Totally impersonal. Although a more generous employer might, so long as people don't take the piss.

The school detention for being late thing is obviously supposed to be a 'punishment' and should really only be applied for persistent lateness. And all the stuff about knowing the car would need defrosting because of the weather - irrelevant! The kid wasn't the owner, driver of the car, was he?!

Yes OP from this your DS will probably learn that school rules are often petty bureaucratic stuff (like petty stuff about uniform). It's a shame, but things seem to be going backwards with this. And many parents seem to be happy to go along with it.

[Antifrank]

Early life lesson - life is unfair, suck it up

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

sorry, misread the OP. Then I guess it has to be taken on the chin. Apparently our local secondary has a zero tolerance policy for that too. If it's in the rules then it's in the rules.

[GnomeDePlume]

YANBU

A silly and pointless detention. It doesnt matter if this is normal in many (though not all) workplaces. School is not a workplace for students.

[exLtEveDallas]

It seems foolish to me as well. DD has to get a school bus to Secondary as we live too far to walk/dangerous route. One morning it didn't turn up - DD was 45 mins late in the end after DH collected her and delivered her to school. If the school had given her a detention there is no way I would have supported it. I think OPs school has been very unfair.

However, I would say, just let it go. Tell your son you don't agree with it, but tell him sometimes unfair things happen and he has to learn to accept it. Tell him you don't support the school - I wouldn't lie to him.

(DD had an 'unfair' detention recently and that is what I have done. She accepted it easier once I told her I agreed with her feelings, whereas beforehand she was all raging about the unfairness of it all)

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

You say 'aw yeah poor you that's a real shame cos it wasn't your fault, but I'm glad they take lateness seriously. Imagine if everyone who was taking the piss regularly said they were late because their friend's mum needed de-icing and just got away with it: that'd be so annoying wouldn't it?'

And then move on.

[leccybill]

Trivial or otherwise, it's not teachers brandishing the clipboards for poor punctuality in secondary.

It would usually be an admin person or assistant head of year, and the only reason such a hard line is taken is because Ofsted insist on pro-active enforcement of punctuality and attendance.

[corythatwas]

"No excuses were acceptable, so if the bus was late, or if you'd stopped to check a pensioner who had keeled over in the street was alright, tough - you should have made allowances to arrive in plenty of time, no matter what. (It wasn't a nice place to work, by the way.)"

"But this is the reality in work for thousands and thousands of people; no matter the reason, if you are late you are docked wages. If you are late for school you suffer the consequences (every school I have worked in will give concessions for a road accident that can not be avoided), but for defrosting a car - not a chance given that all the weather forecasts stated that we would have a frost"

In both these cases, the punishment is suffered by adults who could have made the decision to start earlier or defrost the car. It's not exactly analogous with a young boy who is getting a lift to school with a friend's mum. What was he supposed to do? It's like dd's school bus running late because of the bus company not taking the traffic into account when planning the route- not a lot the students could do about that.

He may have to take it on the chin, but it seems somewhat disingenuous to suggest that it will teach him to plan better.

[oldbirdy]

I am letting it go - but I do think it's a shame. Ds was always determined not to get a detention, never had one, thought they were serious - and the school has taught him they are unfair, trivial and your parents won't care if you get one. Stupid, beaurocratic nonsense. A very different situation to wilful or persistent lateness.

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

I have never worked anywhere where your wages were docked if you were late. You would simply make up the time elsewhere. So if you were 15 minutes late you would shorten your break by 15 minutes or stay 15 minutes after your shift was over.

[exLtEveDallas]

and the school has taught him they are unfair, trivial and your parents won't care if you get one

Yeah I would agree with this. Even more so when DD discovered that detention simply means "sit in silence reading a book for an hour".

All she said was "well that was a waste of time, I could have been doing homework" and "If I get another one I'll make sure I take in a decent book from home"

Not sure exactly how that is a punishment to my happy book reading child?

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

"sit in silence reading a book for an hour".

That would have been my idea of heaven as a teenager.

In fact it still would be now

[exLtEveDallas]

Well yes, quite My hour in the car with my kindle when DD is a netball is my favourite hour of the week!

[eyebrowsonfleek]

5 minutes is trivial in the grand scheme of things but if you let 5 minutes slide when you are running a school then others will take liberty and you end with chaos. Much easier to have one rule applied to everyone.
He needs to suck up the detention and hope that the mum de-ices the car on time tomorrow.

[InfiniteCurve]

School is not work ....repeat as needed.
I've never worked anywhere where you lost money for being late either, but it still isn't same.
If DS is late it'll be the bus company's fault, neither he nor I would have any control over it. If the school care about lateness in that case they should speak to the bus company, not give detentions to students. And a year 8 getting a lift from a friends Mum had no control either.

[eyebrowsonfleek]

At our school misdemeanors are categorised. I wouldn't tell my kids off for getting a detention for lateness or forgetting pe kit (ds is in y11 and has been late once and never forgotten kit) but I wouldn't be impressed with more serious events like fighting, being rude to the teacher, disrupting lessons etc.