Dd and argument with trans friends.(143 Posts)
I'm sorry in advance but this thread is about trans* relates things. I know there are so many threads on this topic already but I'm unsure of what to do.
So, my DD is 14 and a lesbian. She has had ED's, depression, anxiety and self harm issues. A few weeks ago she believed the solution was being trans. We've struggled a bit and she's come to the conclusion that she isn't, although websites and youtube videos on the topic were influencing her. She's improving every day and is gradually embracing self acceptance.
However, at her school are 5 FTM students. They've been horrible to her (two were her friends). They said she was ignoring her 'true self', said she's in denial etc. Dd ignored them.
Today however, one of the friends posted a status on FB of all the 30+ genders there are (apparently). Friend tagged dd and said 'don't ask dd about LGBTQ+ stuff because she's a transphobe and thinks gender is made up'. Dd commented underneath 'im sorry, but have you gotten this wrong? I'm not transphobic at all. I do believe however that gender is a social construct and can be damaging to some people.' Friend then replied with 'thats transphobia! I'm going to report you. You're a disgrace to the LGBTQ+ community and even a transwoman wouldn't take you.' DD then replied with 'well, I'll take the insult if that's what you think. However, I wouldn't date a transwoman purely because I am a lesbian and transwomen are biologically male.'
Afterwards, the FTM students and a couple of others ganged up on dd. Kept calling her horrible things including faggot, transphobic, delusional etc. Dd kept calm, explaining her opinion that gender is made up, sex can never be changed, she wouldn't date a transwoman, its a bit hard to believe there are so many genders, transing children is wrong, self identification is dangerous etc.
Friend told parents who messaged me about my disgustingly transphobic daughter and are threatening to report me and my daughter for bullying their children.
I guess this is more of a WWYD. DD is distraught and I'm rather baffled by the whole thing.
This is awful. If all these children are at school with your dd then I think you need to talk to the school. If you take all the teams stuff out of it, it's basically bullying.
When did all this stuff start invading schools? Is it the latest fad, or what? . I can't even imagine thinking about this shit at 14.
All I've seen on MN today is loads of trans threads
I'd message the parents back and say 'Feel free - I've saved the screenshots of all the nasty bullying homophobic comments your child has publicly written to mine.'
And get in touch with school first thing. Oh and reassure your dd she has done and said nothing wrong.
So glad I'm not at school anymore. Your DD sounds sensible not reacting to them. But it makes me laugh (in an ironic manner) that the friends are being so politically correct and yet using the wrong insult - your DD might want to point out that faggot is a derogatory term for a gay man not a gay woman!
And your DD (and you??) are bullying them?! Seriously? Expressing a personal opinion after someone draws you into a 'conversation' by being hostile to you is bullying? Wow. Just wow. I think if we're talking disgraces to the LGBTQ+ community the finger should be pointing elsewhere. I'll join you in baffled
Your daughter sounds very switched on. Tell her not to engage with them any further.
Point DD towards the Feminism Chat board here
your poor DD- this is bullying and you should talk to the school about it for sure
in the meantime she needs to spend time with other young lesbians, but I can't help you with that as it seems many groups umbrella LBG with T, I'd suggest trying to get hold of older local lesbians, they may have some ideas
there is some very sad stuff from young women who mistakenly transitioned when they were actually lesbian, (I think linked to on soe of the trans threads in feminism chat) but I wouldn't think your dd needs to see that.
On the plus side she seems to be very clear headed, well done her.
I think saying you're trans instead of admitting you're gay is homophobia.
It's very saddening that children feel they have to have a medical condition rather than being gay. What does that say about their parents' prejudices?
Has your DD got screenshots of the conversations? Could she print them off and show school? They're bullying her, not the other way round, based on what you've said here.
Good luck to your DD, and she's very brave coming out at that age
Messy. And one that stems well beyond the playground. There are feminists (like Greer and Bindel) who do not accept that MTF are women and its a very hot issue in feminist circles, regardless of whether an intact and functioning penis is still present or not. There is a lot of research ongoing about sex and sexuality and its begining to show that some people are not biologically one sex or the other (brain scans and neural pathways) but that doesnt change the chromosomal position. We all start as female in the womb and then certain hormonal changes happen but these may not be 100% effective (look at the Guevedoces for a more pronounced example).
School age people are not going to be able to take clear positions on this and maintain a moral high ground if they are bullying. Using the term faggot is bullying and I'd report that. I'd ignore them and if they continue to tag your daughter on facebook then you can also report them for bullying there as well. You daughter has not been a bully and I'd get in touch with a local LGBT Youth group to get her support.
Also worth remembering that homophobia is a crime in the legal sense, whereas transphobia is not, yet.
Since they're throwing around these accusations of transphobia, surely all this nonsense about her denying her "true self" is homophobic? Because they are saying that she can't be lesbian, but a man in the wrong body?
God, this is all so depressing. FIVE young FTM trans teens? If that isn't proof that peer pressure and the internet is making kids make rash decisions, I don't know what is.
Makes me yearn for the days when teens who were just trying to figure out who they were only thought they might be gay.
Your daughter sounds great.
I'd report the bullies to the school for homophobic bullying.
Your dd is being bullied and I would be ringing school/going in tomorrow with printed off screen shots.
I do think it's a fad at school. Dd is 15yo and barely knows any straight kids. Everyone is gay, bi, trans, pan. And screaming homophobia/transphobia is the insult du jour.
I was going to come on and say exactly what titchy has said.
It seems to be a real trend at the moment. Normal teenage angst is assumed to be gender confusion. It's quite worrying.
Dd's school has a huge group of ftm 14 yr olds.
"You're a disgrace to the LGBTQ+ community and even a transwoman wouldn't take you."
With that comment they are actually being anti-trans themselves, aren't they?
a more generous and empathic point of view-
these bullying FTM students probably feel very challenged by your daughter and her lesbian identity- as a young woman who is attracted to girls and (perhaps) rejects some of what we are told is 'feminine'- she probably mirrors some of what those students are feeling but has come to a different conclusion. Her self definition as lesbian may lead them to question their identity as trans (even though that's not her fault or responsibility)- they will have staked a lot on saying 'I'm trans' and won't want to feel uncomfortable- the bullying is essentially a defensive reaction.
Leaving the trans thing to one side, if other kids are ganging up on her and calling her names, that is bullying. I would contact her head of year/school pastoral care person, explain what's been happening and ask for it to be dealt with under their anti-bullying policy.
I would talk to dd and explain what I plan to do. Then listen to what she says. I would advise her to block these kids on social media. If they are behaving this way, they are not her friends.
Regarding the other parents threatening you, I would ignore and block them.
It may well be 'a defensive reaction', but it is homophobic bullying and needs to be addressed.
Your DD is a) correct and b) being bullied
She should block these "friends"on FB, and you should speak to the school about bullying. Ignore the parents that have got involved, there's nothing you can say that will be acceptable to them.
I think getting into a 'who is the bigot here' is a really really bad idea. I think the school will be deeply reluctant to make a call, and I think it muddies the waters.
Basically, if you feel your DD is being bullied, contact the school and try and come to a resolution which involves her ex-friends staying away from her and her staying away from them. As a warning, she may be in for a rough ride, however, if she is very anti-trans and gay - in my experience younger queer circles are hugely invested in being inclusive of the T in LGBT as well as the rest. But I think maybe she's feeling under pressure from all sides as to where she should stand and could do with a break from the whole issue to give herself time to sort things out. If she decides she's a girl and a lesbian, she should be able to be that without having to pick a fight about what other people ID as or who she ought to be having sex with.
Ignore and block and advise your bright DD to do the same.
Speak to the school about the other childrens gang mentality and keep supporting your DD just as you are.
I am so sorry she has been on the receiving end of vile behaviour.
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