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'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

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MNHQ have commented on this thread.

BravoHopeful Fri 21-Oct-16 10:29:34

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

ZoeTurtle Fri 21-Oct-16 10:33:21

YANBU. It's one of the many ridiculous myths around rape.

Sugarcoma Fri 21-Oct-16 11:03:02

It's not that ridiculous a statement - it's usually a slow escalation compounded by pressure.

I spoke to someone recently whose friend - in their large friendship group - was on that path and the story just snowballed. She regretted having sex with another guy in their friendship group and as she talked about it with her friends it was suggested that maybe he pressured her and she agreed, swept along by the narrative, saying he had pressured her. So then someone said well it might even have been rape and then she started saying it could have been rape and then some friends began pressuring her to report it.

And then she's in a position where she might feel pressured to report it because if she's telling friends it might be rape they expect her to report it and if she doesn't report it then they'll think she's lying. In this case she didn't report it (because she wasn't actually raped) but you can see how it escalates.

I'm not saying this is common but it does happen and it would be foolish to think it's never happened and never will.

M0nstersinthecl0set Fri 21-Oct-16 11:13:29

But pressure to have sex is a lack of consent.

grimupnorthLondon Fri 21-Oct-16 11:16:49

Yes monsters and if that happened then it could be rape. I think sugarcoma is talking about a decision independently reached but later regretted and so when other people start suggesting there was pressure that is a welcome idea

bibliomania Fri 21-Oct-16 11:18:07

But M0nsters, the person in question didn't say she was pressured - her friends suggested it and she's gone along with it.

I'm torn about this. I do of course think the man has a responsibility to check that the woman is consenting (and is in a state to do so), but I also think it's unfair to expect him to be a mind-reader if she's giving the impression that it's a "yes" but isn't really, or for him to anticipate a situation where the woman changes her mind.

bibliomania Fri 21-Oct-16 11:18:34

cross-post

skilledintheartofnothing Fri 21-Oct-16 11:20:39

Regretting a choice that was willfully made is not rape.

I have slept with people that i have thought wtf was i thinking but it was by no means rape

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Fri 21-Oct-16 11:37:00

I've made bad decisions and regretted sex, and I've been sexually assualted when I was unable to give consent.

I absolutely, 100% know the difference between the two situations.

Sparklesilverglitter Fri 21-Oct-16 11:43:49

If you have consensual sex with somebody and then regret it once it's over That is not rape. just because you regret your choice to have had sex with somebody does not make it rape

Not consenting to the sex/being forced to have sex is completely different that is rape

Pumkinpie73 Fri 21-Oct-16 11:46:20

If you have consensual sex with somebody, regretting it in the morning does not make it rape.

I myself have had a few one nighters, woke up and thought wtf did you go there for. But it wasn't rape, because it was consensual sex.

If you do not consent/ are forced to have sex/ you can't leave until you've had sex/ you ask somebody to stop and they don't then it's rape

Isitadoubleentendre Fri 21-Oct-16 11:51:03

In this case she didn't report it (because she wasn't actually raped) but you can see how it escalates.

So she wasn't raped and she didn't make a false accusation? Surely this is the point and negates your whole post?

Women who haven't been raped don't tend to report that they have been raped. Unfortunately neither do many women who have.

Fuckingitup Fri 21-Oct-16 11:54:03

Makes no sense to me either OP.

the story just snowballed
maybe it did all happen like that or maybe the women in question pulled back from the developing narrative because it's a difficult one to accept.

But maybe it did happen as described and as per the story i expect it's very rare that a woman in an example like this would get as far as the prosecution stage.

All discussions are valid I guess but it may makes me weary that rape debate goes down these random unlikely routes.

DoinItFine Fri 21-Oct-16 12:02:36

Lots of women who have been raped don't initially think what happened to them counts as rape.

You see it all the time on here where women have bern threatened and coerced into sex think that the fact they eventually stopped resusting neans they consented.

It doesn't.

Realising after the fact that you were raped us extremely common and does not come under "regret".

But lits of rapey men (and their female supporters) who want to exploit the confusion many women feel about consent, want to define rape so that if you aren't screaming no and fighting back with all your might, you consented.

It too me several years to understand and admit that I was raped. I didn't "change my mind". No narrative "escalated".

I just bought into rape myths and thought it didn't count.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks Fri 21-Oct-16 12:02:58

I think it's more common with young people.

Girl has sex with boy - possibly at a party, possibly a both a bit drunk, both consenting...

2 days later girl's friend goes "URGHHHH... you didn't have sex with him did you? OMG!!! He's GRIM!...." etc

Girl (trying to save face) goes "well I didn't really want to..."

And Sugarcoma's scenario unfolds.

Girl "doesn't want to report" and gives all the well known reasons why women genuinely don't.

Boy is labelled a rapist.

I'm sorry, but it does happen.

It won't become part of stats because nothing is ever officially reported.

MLGs Fri 21-Oct-16 12:03:43

I think it can happen, but probably not that often because, as OP says, who would want to go through the whole gruesome process if they hadn't actually been raped?

The answer is probably "well, some people" but not all that many people.

HellsBellsnBucketsofBlood Fri 21-Oct-16 12:05:35

It does happen. It's pretty rare, but sadly not nonexistent.

DoinItFine Fri 21-Oct-16 12:06:24

What also happens very, very frequently is that the drunk girl was raped by the boy at the party.

And she thinks it was consensual even though she was coerced at the time.

Why are all these young women having sex they don't want?

Seems odd.

ManonLescaut Fri 21-Oct-16 12:08:42

I think this narrative really comes from men having a) no idea what reporting a sex offence to the police actually involves and b) a deep insecurity that a woman might wake up and regret sex with them.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks Fri 21-Oct-16 12:08:58

The thing is Doin is that at the time they did want to... it's only afterwards they wish they hadn't.

DoinItFine Fri 21-Oct-16 12:08:59

This is why enthusiastic consent is needed.

Grudging consent or just letting it happen because you don't know how to stop it could well be rape.

Boys should be afraid of proceeding if they are not absolutely certain.

The culture of "get it in there while you've got the chance" is unacceptable.

ManonLescaut Fri 21-Oct-16 12:09:18

By which I mean it's something that many men seem to fear, rather than being something that women actually do.

MLGs Fri 21-Oct-16 12:10:22

And I agree that obviously rape doesn't have to mean the person was kicking or screaming.

The definition is the man didn't "reasonably believe" there was consent. (i'm saying the man, but of course the victim could be a man as well)

So if you've been wearing someone down for ages or you threaten them or you know they are scared or whatever, then you don't reasonably believe in consent.

DoinItFine Fri 21-Oct-16 12:12:33

I think many men know they are penetrating women without being sure of consent and they want to continue to be able to get away with that

ManonLescaut Fri 21-Oct-16 12:13:23

I couldn't agree less Milk

The sheer number of teenage girls who are genuinely pressured and coerced into sex they don't want is a much bigger problem than girls who regret it the next day.

I have never come across a girl or woman in all my 45 years who turned regretted sex into rape.

I do know 3 women who never reported genuine rape.

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