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to think if the tables were turned, England would probably want independence?

(29 Posts)
wibblewobble8 Mon 17-Oct-16 16:00:10

In that if Scotland had a population of 63ish million and England was 5ish million, and Scotland was the dominant 'partner' within the UK, it would be likely that a majority of English would want independence to make their own decisions. So anything England voted as part of the UK was essentially a redundant vote unless the majority of Scotland agreed with them. And Holyrood essentially became Westminister with all decisions taking place here. And mind you only have 56 or so mps, so not a lot of clout agains the other 600 MPs looking out for Scotland. I mean the other 600mps will be looking out for the UK as a whole but y'know, the 60 odd million people who voted them in and ensure they have a career live in Scotland so best to keep them happiest. I really wonder if the majority of those living in England would accept those conditions.

rumpelstiltskin43 Mon 17-Oct-16 16:48:48

But the tables aren't turned so it's a moot point.

wibblewobble8 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:13:45

well its never gonna happen but that doesnt stop people considering it and discussing it. Its called trying to understand from the other view point. I imagine thats how a lot of things are achieved.

SwearyInn Mon 17-Oct-16 17:16:08

But the majority of Scots, myself included, don't want independence. So the underlying premise of your argument is flawed.

almondpudding Mon 17-Oct-16 17:16:40

I thought most English people already did want England to be independent.

GonicaMeller Mon 17-Oct-16 17:17:28

I've no problem with Scotland leaving but hope that it is done amicably

almondpudding Mon 17-Oct-16 17:24:52

Yes, my main concern would be that any splits within the UK were done in an amicable manner and did not create conflict in Northern Ireland.

I would be very sad if the Welsh wanted to leave (although they generally don't), but don't really see why Scotland is still in the UK.

Lewwat Mon 17-Oct-16 17:25:31

Do you have any examples of Scotland voice not being heard/being hard done by that doesn't include brexit

GonicaMeller Mon 17-Oct-16 17:27:23

Could Wales leave? I know they are technically their own country but realistically would they be able to stand alone?

almondpudding Mon 17-Oct-16 17:31:30

I don't know Gonica, but more from a cultural and social point of view I really like Wales being part of the UK.

I know that is not an entirely rational argument, but often these decisions are made on such feelings.

SwearyInn Mon 17-Oct-16 17:32:19

almondpudding - if Scotland leaves the UK, England becomes a second tier backwater country. You have a lot to lose without us. The main reason being nuclear deterrent - currently located in Scotland, with no suitable place in England and Wales to host. We are also very clever - that's why so many of us have infiltrated England - you need our brains :-)

<tongue very firmly in cheek with that comment>

So whilst I hate the Nats and their whining about how shite the English are, I am also fed up of the (minority of) whinging English saying how much they just want us to fuck off. Though I realise that may not be your position.

We should all just smoke the peace pipe and sing the non- religious version of Kumbaya.

sluj Mon 17-Oct-16 17:32:37

Disappointed. I thought this was going to be a thread about the people of England having a say in whether or not Scotland should be independent 😕

MitzyLeFrouf Mon 17-Oct-16 17:40:05

Could Wales leave? I know they are technically their own country but realistically would they be able to stand alone?

Support for Welsh independence is very low in Wales. I think it's around 10%. Economically they'd be in an even more precarious position than Scotland.

wibblewobble8 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:40:29

im not asking if scots want independence :/ i am asking those living in England if they would like independence if the tables were turned. Would they be happy to be ruled from Scotland and them being the much smaller partner. I dont understand when some of the English get angry with Scottish Independence whilst moaning that Scottish are hangers on/leeches/interfering with English politics. Surely these people would be happy for Scotland to be independent and give it support? I dont have anything against the English, i imagine the majority of them are fairly normal and nice like the myself and face the same day to day trials and tribulations except the ones that comment on the dm, most of them seem like cunts tbh

GonicaMeller Mon 17-Oct-16 17:48:11

Wobble to be honest I think England is so S/E focused many of us living in the north feel a similar disconnect.

Capricorn76 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:48:47

I believe Wales are a net taker not contributor and without the EU to support them financially they could never survive on their own. The Scots have a chance though and I wouldn't blame them as I believe England stabbed them in the back by encouraging them to stay in the Union then voting to leave the EU.

MistresssIggi Mon 17-Oct-16 17:51:13

Do you have any examples of Scotland voice not being heard/being hard done by that doesn't include brexit?

elodie2000 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:52:36

Today 17:32 SwearyInn if Scotland leaves the UK, England becomes a second tier backwater country.
grin What would Scotland become if it left the UK?

wibblewobble8 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:52:55

that would ring true Gonica. After the last election, i had a fair few Northern English friends express their anger/disgust at Scotland voting SNP because how dare we not vote labour (who they felt represented their views better) and it was our fault that Tories had got into power nothing at all to do with all the people in England voting Tory even when i pointed out that even had Scotland voted Labour instead of Tory, the Tories would still have got a majority.

JassyRadlett Mon 17-Oct-16 17:55:33

I really wonder if the majority of those living in England would accept those conditions.

Having lived more than half my life in a federal system, in a less populous (and therefore less electorally powerful) component of that country, I can confidently state that yes, I would.

DanGleballs Mon 17-Oct-16 17:56:01

You could say the same for Cornwall too. So we would end up broken up into little bits with no clout in world politics at all.

Meadows76 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:59:25

trying to understand from the other view point. There is the problem in EVERY single one of these threads about Scotland/England. There is not just one other view point. It's interesting how people assume that 'scotland' or rather the SNP, ,means every single person in Scotland. Same with England, if the tables were turned would England want Indy? England isn't a person, there are a million viewpoints

wibblewobble8 Mon 17-Oct-16 17:59:58

Jassy, but it wouldnt be a federal country. I guess England would have some powers devolved. We'd take all your income and decide how much you got back and let you decide what you were gonna do with some of it, all with conditions of course. But mostly power would lie in Scotland. That said i guess id probably be happy if Scotland and England were truely federal countries, it would probably put independence on the back burner for good.

wibblewobble8 Mon 17-Oct-16 18:01:47

Cornwall isnt a country last time i checked. Or are you suggesting that Scotland isnt one neither? im not really sure what your point is?

InTheseFlipFlops Mon 17-Oct-16 18:10:02

Dan I've wondered the same about it all splitting up. I know cornwall was /is a separate country depending who you talk to, but would it then end up coming down to county level?

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