AIBU to not want brothels legalised?(259 Posts)
A lot of people aren't aware that our government is currently considering changing the laws on prostitution so that it will be legal to set up huge brothels.
They did this in Germany, not envisaging that they would end up with chains of 'megabrothels' in which 400,000 girls are needed to meet the demand. These poor girls are awfully degraded and have little control over anything. They are obliged to accept any man and do anything he wants, or get excluded by the owner. The majority have to be lured (or worse!) from other countries, as there aren't enough German women to 'service' the ever-increasing numbers of 'customers'.
Surely I am not the only MumsNetter who can't bear the thought of my daughters and grand-daughters being recruited into such places once they are legal in the UK. The thought of them having to go with an endless stream of strange, random men off the street really turns my stomach.
It's obvious to me that naive young girls will be persuaded that this is an 'easy way' to pay their student fees, get a deposit for a flat etc.
The other thing is, women have been fighting for equality for over 100 years, and this feels like a huge step backwards. I don't see how we can ever persuade men to respect women as equals when they can buy and sell us for sexual use.
It seems to me that the girls and women who will end up in the brothels are going to be the vulnerable and the desperate. It just seems like a way for men to exploit this vulnerability for their own selfish ends, and that's wrong.
Most ordinary folk don't think prostitution is any of their business, and to be honest, if it's just a 'discreet housewife' seeing a few 'gentlemen friends', I'm not bothered, either. But this national lack of interest means that those who want to open big brothels here are currently able to put a lot of pressure on the government behind our backs.
AIBU to not want brothels legalised, but to want to leave the law as it is?
YABU. Equality is being able to make your own choices without being judged.
No woman should feel forced to do anything and/or conform to a particular norm. But she should be able to make her own lifestyle choices without fear of being judged and that extends to working in a brothel if she so wishes.
Legalising brothels would surely lead to regulation and better healthcare/employment protection. No bad thing.
I'm in favour of the legalisation (and de-stigmatisation) of sex work in general. However, it does seem to have been badly managed in Germany. I would have to know more about the proposals in this country to know if I'm against them. Do you have any more info/links?
I have no issue with someone choose to be a prostitute, if that's what they want to do then good on them for not worrying about other people judging them.
However I'm not keen on brothels being legalized as I think it will increase girls/woman being taken to be used sex slaves. Although I suppose it would be safer for the woman that are choosing to do it.. it's a tricky one really.
No you are entirely right.
Unfortunately you are going to be inundated with YABVU from 'feminists' who think 'sex workers' are making a 'lifestyle' choice like choosing to working in Morrisons checkout or setting up a dogwalking business. It's bollocks and the only ones it benefits are those who (ab)use prostitutes. Same old shit.
I don't think it's a bad idea, it just depends what rules and checks there will be to ensure the women are ok.
If a women wants to sell sex without being pressured by a pimp or something then that is that women's choice and she should be allowed to do that without being judged.
In theory I don't think it's a bad idea, if a women wants to sell sex then it is her choice to do so. How are you or me to judge her for her choice? But in reality I don't think there is a way to police that the women are doing as that's there choice as it would probably cost far too much to do it.
If there was a way of doing it so it was checked up on that the girls were doing it by there own choice then I think ok fair enough, what a girls chooses to do with her body is fuck all to do with me isn't it really?
But it would cost far too much for government departments or whatever to check every girl so I don't see how it could work.
Sex being used as a commodity is wrong in itself. This is because nobody should be in the position where they NEED to sell sex for bills or general living expenses.
Anyone who fucks someone else for money is taking advantage of the fact that they are financially more powerful and that's very wrong.
Selling sex for money is not like say...cleaning for money because sex is far more intimate, personal and potentially mentally damaging. So YANBU.
'Feminist' 'sex workers' 'lifestyle choice'
Not sure if I'm a feminist. I'm just me, doing what I do, going about my business, speaking up where I think things are wrong. Even so, not sure why feminist is in inverted commas, even less sex workers or lifestyle choice.
'Sex workers' do not make a 'lifestyle choice' as a matter of habit. Most are victims of abuse and substance abusers who have no other way to make money. If a legalised brothel can take them from standing on a street corner at midnight in December to a warm room with security and a means of protection if the punter gets nasty then I'm all for legalised brothels, even in my village.
I don't understand the German argument so that's something I'll look into more, however the New Zealand model seems to work, so why not go down that route?
I don't agree with this.
I can't see how Prostitution is a real choice if women and girls are going into it because of poverty.
Surely the answer is to reverse the government cuts which have hit women disproportionately and more measures to promote economic equality for women.
I for one do not want to see women on benefits being told 'Get to a brothel or lose your benefits' !
Nor do I want to see my 8 yr old grandaughter being taunted in the playground with 'I wouldn't pay a £ for you'
I think it is appalling, and an obvious danger to women.
I can hardly believe that women have persuaded themselves they are looking out for other women by telling them that (a) men are entitled to rent orifice (b) that someone (else) should provide that service and that (c) they have bought into the Happy Hooker myth.
Even if Brooke Magnanti personally loves getting paid for prostitution, the thousands or tens of thousands of other women who are poor and addicted or trafficked deserve better than that.
That women on this website would tell those who have managed to exit, "what's their problem" when those women themselves consider prostitution as "Commercialised sexual assault" is jaw dropping.
And of course the truth is that, for all the "if she wants to" nonsense, none of those supporters of commercialised sexual assault would be a tiny bit proud or pleased if it was their own son or daughter that was on either side of that transaction. Or how about if the son or daughter was told that was their job if they were unemployed
from what I've read the German hyper brothels have the effect of industrializing sex work so that the women are reduced to pieces of equipment used to service the male customers.
I dont know what the answer is, my suspicion is that there are a few women who are genuinely able to handle sex work and who can make very good money out if it.
But these are a small minority and most women are harmed by it and it has a detrimental effect on women in general.
The women who do well out of it are able to charge high fee's precisely because it is a taboo area so in some respects it's not in their interests for it to be too 'normalized'
The fact is that no women want to fuck for a living. They might have no other option but that is not a choice. The only people who want women to fuck for a living are (bad) men. That is not a choice. And women buying into the lie that it is a choice make me gasp with shock. That is buying into the lie and into the abuse.
It's unfortunately that simple
I agree IBelieve.
And anyone should ask themselves whether they would like a large brothel on their street or in their neighbourhood. I certainly wouldn't. It makes the area less safe for women as a bunch of fucking horrible men would be around.
I'm torn on the issue because on one hand the German super brothels sound like dehumanising hell holes but on the other side if prostitution were legal we might see better protection for street workers who are currently forced to work outside the law. Maybe a halfway house where we decriminalise selling sex while banning the set up of industrial scale brothels would be best?
Gamer that "protection" is not protection but the ultimate in control.
These women won't even get to set their own prices.
I agree IBelieve. Me too. I believe the women should be decriminalized but the men, and the system, should not.
How long will it be before woman get sanctioned for refusing to work in a brothel?
IBelieve Some women do want to fuck for a living. They are usually the ones who earn thousands of pounds a night and don't want to give it up for a boring 9-5 office job.
The women I feel need protection in the form of legalised brothels are the girls and women who walk the streets at night, touting any punter that comes their way, with no guarantee of where they're going or any degree of protection from violence. Prostitution has always existed. "You have what I want, I have what you need" has been a barter system for as long as whenever. I agree, it shouldn't exist, but it does, so why not try and make it safer for the vulnerable people who sell sex?
I completely agree that there are issues about consent that should not be taken lightly, and I think that the German model is failing women.
But I don't think it's as simple as all prostitution is rape, all sex workers are victims, no woman really wants to do sex work... I know two people who have done sex work. One of them was sexually abused as a teenager and freely admits that this influenced her decision to do sex work. But does it vitiate her consent? She's a very intelligent and forceful person, and her abuse has affected other aspects of her life too...
I think that when you say that all prostitution is rape/sexual assault it comes close to saying that a prostitute's consent is not "real" when in fact there is a huge and important difference between a prostitute who has accepted a client and one who is raped. Let's not minimise others' bodily autonomy.
Anyway, it's a complex problem for sure. But anyway, I think that any government policy about sex work has to come out of consultation with sex workers themselves. I don't think that not wanting to think of your granddaughters growing up and being paid for sex is a good reason not to legalise.
Also, just as a reminder -- not all sex workers are women!
Also, there are other areas where there is a great danger of exploitation and issues of consent and bodily autonomy are raised -- being paid to take part in medical trials springs to mind. It's possible to address these issues without it being a binary choice between legalisation and decriminalisation.
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