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To think that the prosecution of these boys was inevitable but depressing

(81 Posts)
travellinglighter Sun 02-Oct-16 09:55:25

I have seen the video of this happening and frankly it really depresses me. You listen to the “gangsta speak" and wonder what the hell do we do with people who would do this sort of thing. The assault is bad enough but the fact it seems so normal to them that they would post it on social media. Insult added to injury It’s almost a badge of honour for them to act like a bullying bastard.

What punishment will they receive?? It won’t be adult prison and any prison time means that they will be unemployable (not sure they were hugely employable in the first place). If they are fined??? Big deal, I suspect that whatever happens, rather than vilification from their peers they will get kudos for being a hard man.

What can you do to these kids (and they are just big kids) that will make them worthwhile citizens?? I can’t think of anything.

I have kids who have to go out in the world where people like this wander the streets. Thank god I live in a small town on the right side of the Welsh border but we have our feral element as well and I wonder how many of them see this and think “That looks like fun.”

How do you teach your kids to be streetwise enough to avoid these situations? Lets face it, no amount of self defence lessons would have saved this boy from older, stronger more aggressive teenagers.

The kids both have a phone that are a worth a lot of money, it’s time to talk to them about not getting the phone out in public. Avoiding back streets and parks where large groups gather. Isn’t it awful that I potentially have to scare them like this.

seashells16 Sun 02-Oct-16 09:57:09

My best answer is to try and live in an area where they won't come across this, or at least not so much.

I'm normally fairly liberal but I won't lose any sleep at all knowing those two shits have been locked up for a long long time.

GustyParson Sun 02-Oct-16 09:57:13

Not sure how living in Wales is significant here, but broadly I agree with you.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost Sun 02-Oct-16 11:07:47

What other option is there, though, aside from charging them.
If it were up to me I'd give them 10 years In a strict prison, but we know that won't happen. It'll either be a years suspended sentence or the 60 hours community service.

booox Sun 02-Oct-16 11:11:03

It is terribly sad. I'm in awe of Jeremy Vine's response however.

purpleporpoise Sun 02-Oct-16 11:17:27

I'm not a fan of JV but that response is amazing. I hope the boy is recovering from his injuries

Nakatomi Sun 02-Oct-16 11:18:18

That letter by Vine is excellent. There's only a certain level of this kind of behaviour you can reverse by the age of 15/16 and from what I've seen, these kids are already too far gone. It needs to be nipped in the bud early.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost Sun 02-Oct-16 11:21:45

Beautiful and heartfelt letter from Jeremy Vine.

JenLindleyShitMom Sun 02-Oct-16 11:23:33

I think they should be put into a violence rehab programme (separately) 6 months at least but a year preferably. Weekly attendance. With exposure to the impact of bullying, suicide statistics amongst teens/young men, exposure to the impact on their prospects (not sure if that one would be effective though) heavy work on identifying what path they took that led them to that moment in time, what their friend choices means and if they can make better choices. And restraining orders preventing them being anywhere near their co-offenders.

MadameJosephine Sun 02-Oct-16 11:27:19

That letter from Jeremy Vine is so moving, I hope the boy reads it and take every word on board.

My DS was punched to the floor by an older boy on the bus home from school when he was 12. He wouldn't let me involve the police. Thankfully the school handled it very well and it never happened again.

He is now 20 and at university. He is a wonderful, sensitive intelligent young man. I am very proud of him

The boy who punched him is now in prison.

Pollyanna9 Sun 02-Oct-16 11:32:05

Did anyone watch the borstal series that was on a while back?

Sounds awful doesn't it but it was kind of like they would experience if they decided to go into the army - hard work, discipline, doing things they wouldn't normally do, gradually being crafted into a 'family' with standards and respect.

Clearly community orders, tags and curfews really don't work.

travellinglighter Sun 02-Oct-16 11:36:10

Hi Gusty

Living in a semi rural location as opposed to an urban/suburban population centre like Romford means that there are less wannabe gangsters.

dataandspot Sun 02-Oct-16 11:40:55

I thought Jeremy vines letter was really naff!

Natsku Sun 02-Oct-16 11:41:45

Makes you wonder what makes someone behave like that. They must have exhibiting that kind of behaviour for a long time before - was nothing done to try and change them before? I think this is something that needs to be addressed at a young age, when bullying and violent behaviours first show up. I reckon that's why schools where I live have their own social workers, so they can spot the early signs and get involved when there's still a chance to turn them around.

kaitlinktm Sun 02-Oct-16 11:43:29

My son was beaten up at 17 (he is now 31) by a group of youths who didn't know him but had a problem with one of his friends. While they were kicking him on the floor, he said to them "but you don't even know me - why would you do this?" They just carried on. Miraculously he didn't have any serious injuries.

We reported it to the police. They came to the house and realised that my son had been drinking. Therefore they weren't in the slightest bit interested. One of them told us that it was one person's word against another and that if they knew it had been reported the attackers might take revenge and things would be even worse. We felt frightened off and dropped the matter.

It gave me such confidence in my local police. hmm

travellinglighter Sun 02-Oct-16 11:43:40

The violence rehabilitation program sounds like a good idea. We too often lock people up with no plan what to do with them when they come out. Anything less than prison is seen as the soft option and once they're out they reoffend.

The Sun made a big song and dance about safari boy many years ago. What they didn't say was that the rehabilitation program that safari boy was on had a fantastic rate of reoffending prevention and was cheaper than prison.

My cousin farms near there and two of the residents vandalised his property. The centre sent them back the next day to work for my cousin. He worked them like dogs. Within a week they were back on the farm helping him on their own initiative. Lovely chap my cousin.

HerFaceIsaMapOfTheWorld Sun 02-Oct-16 11:49:31

What the hell is "gangster speak" maybe you live in a cave in the middle of nowhere but this is a London Urban accent or slang, there is nothing "gangster" about it.

And yes they should be punished because it is bullying, the boy is alone in the middle of the woods, it is not acceptable behaviour.

BlancheBlue Sun 02-Oct-16 11:51:55

small town on the right side of the Welsh border

hmm what side is that?

JenLindleyShitMom Sun 02-Oct-16 11:52:44

We too often lock people up with no plan what to do with them when they come out.

Yes, locking them up with other worse offenders. Might as well call it crim college. (As hydebank Young offenders centre is now! It's referred to as a campus FFS pretty fucking apt!)

HerFaceIsaMapOfTheWorld Sun 02-Oct-16 11:53:14

kaitlinktm tbh that sounds about right for the police and all the other side have to do is make counter claims then your son would of been arrested as well.

At least here there is proof the boy never did anything back.

FrancisCrawford Sun 02-Oct-16 11:55:04

young men thinking they are above the law and can do as they please is not always an attitude that suddenly develops because they are exposed to a gang culture. It can start much earlier - often depressingly early. Last week a 5 or six year old child deliberately tried to ram an in-store wheel chair in to my shins. His mother had been fondly watching her offspring while he "played" with the wheelchair and never thought to tell him that it wasn't a toy.

I saw the child deliberately turn and run full speed at me and managed to grab the wheelchair just before the footrests jammed into my shins. At the same time I said two words: "stop that".

That caused the mother to leap over and scream in my face "don't talk to my child like that". The charming child then stuck his tongue out at me. She was only concerned that I had dared to speak to her child and could not care less what he was doing.

With that sort of really crap parenting the child stands every chance of continuing his anti social behaviours as he grows up because he isn't being taught how to behave. If the parents can't get it right, what chance do schools have?

travellinglighter Sun 02-Oct-16 12:05:41


Sorry, I have no idea what London urban slang is. Please forgive me for not being right on the ball with how kids in a city 250 miles and two generations removed from me speak. I'm not criticising their culture just their actions.

As for cave in the middle of nowhere?? Yes that's right everyone outside of the M25 is a cave dwelling troglodyte on the verge of discovering fire.

Jaxhog Sun 02-Oct-16 12:06:16

They should be made to do community work, dressed in pink fairy tutus. That would wipe the arrogant grins off their faces.

Bring back the stocks, I say.

booox Sun 02-Oct-16 12:07:01

It's very sad that this charity and approach folded.

JenLindleyShitMom Sun 02-Oct-16 12:10:18

They should be made to do community work, dressed in pink fairy tutus. That would wipe the arrogant grins off their faces.

You're very naive. They would own those tutus. They would make it into a big joke and take the power back by strutting in them and posing for selfies etc. It also isn't a great idea to use humiliation like that as a way to tackle bullying hmm it just makes them angry and want revenge.

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