AIBU to think gotten isn't a word?

(34 Posts)
ItsJustNotRight Sat 01-Oct-16 21:33:17

Quick vent, I've seen it on countless posts over the last few days, when did it become a word?

SueGeneris Sat 01-Oct-16 21:36:13

It is a word in American English, I believe.

allegretto Sat 01-Oct-16 21:36:26

It's American English.

Anicechocolatecake Sat 01-Oct-16 21:37:57

It's American English, but it actually comes from Elizabethan English. Definitely a word.

SueGeneris Sat 01-Oct-16 21:37:58

grammarist.com/usage/got-gotten/

Quite interesting (well, to me anyway!)

RueDeDay Sat 01-Oct-16 21:38:20

"Just seeing the word is enough to set the hair of some British English speakers on end. Yet, despite the many claims that it is an Americanism, it is most definitely of British origin and the Oxford English Dictionary traces its first use to the 4th century.

Since then, it has been used by many notable British English writers, including Shakespeare, Bacon and Pope and it was one of a number of words that were transported across the Atlantic with the settlers. But then it slipped out of use in British English, along with such words as fall for "autumn" (British English having opted to adopt the French word) and guess in the sense of "think".

This has led to the less-informed criticising it as a "heinous Americanism", despite its British origin - yet I'm sure such people quite happily use words and phrases like belittle, cold snap, bark up the wrong tree and lengthy, despite these being true Americanisms."

Noctilucent Sat 01-Oct-16 21:38:39

It is American English, and also what we used to say before we abbreviated to the present day "got".

RueDeDay Sat 01-Oct-16 21:39:16

From www.miketodd.net/encyc/gotten.htm

SueGeneris Sat 01-Oct-16 21:39:21

It's the same with 'z' spellings, ie 'familiarize'. We would use 's' now but in the past did use 'z'.

Deux Sat 01-Oct-16 21:39:24

It's been used in the part of Scotland I come from for generations.

We also say amn't I instead of aren't I.

smile

kindler Sat 01-Oct-16 21:42:15

Forgot/forgotten is a similar construction

Amalfimamma Sat 01-Oct-16 21:42:22

Gotten is as American English as the Queen is 🙂

Monochromecat Sat 01-Oct-16 21:43:26

It's fucking annoying...

BossWitch Sat 01-Oct-16 21:43:27

I love words like this - markers of the section of history when the English language branched off.

roasted Sat 01-Oct-16 21:46:40

It's a genuine word in Doric, which is a Scottish dialect.

SueGeneris Sat 01-Oct-16 21:47:35

That's interesting about guess, Rue. I always thought it was very casual in that form and as such made me think of Americans as a whole as sort of laid back. To say you 'guess' something or other, coming from an understanding of the word in the British English sense, sounds so much less authoritative than to say you 'think' it.

I'm a copy editor working in British English but I do like American English. I do like an em dash! And I love how they always use their middle initial in their names, and give their legislation names rather than our very practical descriptions.

I especially love that they say 'plumber's crack' rather than 'builder's bum'.

BeMorePanda Sat 01-Oct-16 21:47:56

Alot should be a word.

Excited101 Sat 01-Oct-16 21:48:21

I don't care where it came from, I HATE it

CocktailQueen Sat 01-Oct-16 21:51:49

Roasted - no idea where you got your info, but I'm from Aberdeen,where the Doric is spoken, and I have NEVER heard anyone use 'gotten' there. hmm

And SueGeneris - you're wrong. -ize spellings are traditionally uk, and are still used in the style sheets of many publishers.

Wonderflonium Sat 01-Oct-16 21:53:07

So none of you have heard the phrase "ill-gotten gains"?

SueGeneris Sat 01-Oct-16 21:55:51

Cocktail that's what I meant. Don't think I was clear. I agree, I've used them for certain publishers here.

PickleSarnie Sat 01-Oct-16 21:56:30

Is it really roasted? I've never heard it being used in 20 years or so in Aberdeen. But am ridiculously unobservant so may just never have noticed.

I'd like to chuck it in room 101 along with "gonna"

DiscoMike Sat 01-Oct-16 21:57:59

My GCSE history teacher would whinge if anyone so much as muttered the word "got" in his earshot. He was happy to spend a good ten minutes every lesson getting everyone to repeat whatever they'd said/written/thought that contained the word and then made to demonstrate how unnecessary it was and how very very wrong they had been.

RiverTam Sat 01-Oct-16 21:58:16

Yes, most big trade publishers use 'ize' spelling.

I like a lot of Amercian English, but I'm not that keen on it being used so much here just because it's in lots of films or whatever. What's wrong with macaroni cheese, hmm? HMMM?

Here's a fun fact (at least I hope it's a fact, read it in a Bill Bryson book many moons ago) - when aluminium was discovered it was called aluminum. The Americans duly updated their periodic tables etc. Then it was decided that it should rhyme with other elements such as sodium, calcium etc, so it was changed. But the Americans thought fuck that, we're not updating everything again, and left it as the original aluminum.

roasted Sat 01-Oct-16 21:59:55

Fit like, CocktailQueen?

Most Aberdonians pepper their speech with the odd Doric word, hardly anyone (apart from the older generations) speaks in thick Doric these days. I've heard it used it before and can find a reference here: www.doricphrases.com

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