To question whether this child should be in mainstream school?

[Goldenhandshake]

There is a child in my DC's year 3 class, I do not know the extent of his learning difficulties or conditions, I have spoken to his mum on a few occasions and she has stated he has ADHD, however there may be more she hasn't divulged, always assumed it was none of my business tbh. She was very open in saying he had set his siblings coat on fire previously (whilst the sibling was wearing it!).

However I am becoming increasingly worried, he has had several very violent outburst in class and the playground, he has been pulled off another child after wrapping his hands round his throat and choking the lad, has thrown a chair at the teacher and broken a window. It sounds very much like he has difficulty controlling his anger and I am now concerned for my DC's safety.

I don't want to be one of those parents who pushes out children for being different or having complex needs, but I equally do not want the worry that he will attack or harm my child.

So WIBU to request a meeting or call with the school to find out what they are doing to either limit the risk or manage this child's needs appropriately and keep the rest of the class safe?

[ghostyslovesheep]

YANBU simply because - if these things are happening the school is failing HIM - they should be able to protect him and his fellow students from his behavior - they need to put more effective support in place from the sound of things

[Ausernotanumber]

You can only ask what they are doing to safeguard your own child.

Has the child actually harmed your child?

[Emochild]

You have absolutely no right to ask if this child's needs are being met

You do have the right to know your child is safe in school

There may not be any spaces in special provision -his mum may have already explored the option

[monkeysox]

They won't be able to comment on other students. Very difficult situation. You could state your concerns but be prepared to be told they cannot discuss another child.

[Goldenhandshake]

Ausernotanumber No, thankfully not, at the moment he seems to get on fairly well with my DC, from what is described when there is any kind of disagreement, he loses his temper massively and becomes violent.

[Sirzy]

Sounds like school are failing him at the moment and not providing him with the support he needs.

[elliejjtiny]

They won't discuss another child. However do complain anyway as it will hopefully mean better support for him.

[plimsolls]

It's a bit of a leap to question if he should be in mainstream school. Yes, he might need more support, intervention or differentiation. Unless he's physically harming your child or having a major impact on you in some way, it's not really up to you though.

[NotNob]

Oh FGS, let the child's mother worry about whether the school is failing him; if I were OP, I'd be worried about my child and my child alone.

[Goldenhandshake]

Thanks all, I didn't want to approach the school all bullish demanding he is pulled form the school or anything drastic, I just want my concerns allayed I suppose. Will lodge a concern and see where it gets me...

[SvenandSven]

You are well within your rights to ask the school how they are safe guarding your child. But you will not find out what they are doing with the child in question.
It is certainly not your place to question if the child should be in mainstream!
Do you realise how hard and how long it can take to move a child to a specialist school?
The child would need a statement or the new equivalent. These procedures and assessments have there own timeline.
Then application for the new school is not just ringing your lea it was in our case a review meeting where I had to outline how the school was no longer meeting my childs needs. In this meeting was the head teacher and several other professionals involved with my son.
In my area there are termly panel meetings to approve applications to move to a specialist school. Not to mention if the proposed school has a waiting list.
It took us one whole school year to get our son moved. In that year his behaviour got a lot worse because the school struggled to cope with him. He would hit, kick, bite and basically attack me.
Since being at the the specialist school his behaviour has changed so much for the better I don't get attacked anymore at all.
You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes but please be aware of the fact it is not a simple easy route to change school.
No matter what the childs behaviour is like or how they would really benefit from moving from mainstream. It is a fight to get them there.

[RhodaBorrocks]

The school are failing him. His outbursts are because they are not managing him properly. His Mum could be in a vicious battle with your county to get him statemented so he can be moved to another school that can meet his needs. If he's already statemented there may be any number of reasons that school as yet does not want to say they can't manage his needs.

It is not as easy as just putting him in a SEN school. The school and parents gave to jump through hoops to get that far and it can take years. There arent enough SEN schools and it may not even be truly necessary.

As the parent of an Autistic DC who has had parents go in and tell the head that 'kids like him shouldn't be allowed in normal schools' (and he's not even severely affected - he is bright and many people don't realise he is on the spectrum until he flips out over something) by the parent of one of his bullies, this attitude sickens me. That poor child is acting out because he is going through hell and isn't getting enough support.

By all means, question that aspect, do not question if he should be at mainstream school.

[Goldenhandshake]

I'm well aware it is not as simple as whisking him out of one school and into another, I don't think anything in my post suggested that.

However, my primary concern is my child's safety, he hasn't harmed my DC, however he has harmed others and his outbursts are becoming more regular, more dangerous. I do have sympathy for him, I totally get he is acting out due to frustrations or stress, however, if a chair is then launched at my DC, which is a stark possibility, then I'm afraid my sympathy only extends so far, which is why I wanted to see if the school would do anything to assure parents of the DC potentially affected by his violence.

[ILoveMyMonkey]

As a teacher who's been on the receiving end of violent children in mainstream settings I would love to know what the posters who claim the school are failing him / not managing him and his behaviour / failing to protect him etc suggest the schools do to improve the situation?

OP you can certainly raise your concerns with the school but, as others have said, they won't discuss the other child with you. Hopefully they will be able to reassure you about how they are keeping your child safe though.

[nennyrainbow]

Do you know any of the governors, particularly parent ones? If you would prefer to report your concerns anonymously, you could speak to one of the governors, who could then relay it to the headteacher. It sounds like the boy needs some extra support. It could be that the school is already onto this and trying to address it but these things take time.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I agree with others, its not your business to decide if this boy should be in mainstream or not! YOu have a right to know and be reassured that your child will be safe.

[dalmatianmad]

I had very similar experience with a boy in dds class, I did wonder if she was exaggerating about his behaviour but we live across the road from school and one morning the boy threw himself on the road and refused to get up, his dad/head teacher/lollypop man all tried and it was nearly an hour until he moved.
I felt sorry for school and the parent's, after an incident where a chair got thrown through the window one day I made an appointment and explained that I was concerned about my dds safety and told them if they couldnt safeguard her I would keep her at home.
I think other parents went in and they got a support worker and things settled down.
He didn't go to the same secondary school and I often wondered what happened to him. I bumped into his mum a few moths ago in my workplace, he had physically assaulted her and smashed a glass over her head

[bigbuttons]

Funding is being pulled out of units. There are many kids who would be better off in other units. The funding isn't there.

Do you think the school want to have to deal with these things? Our school is chock full of damaged and violent children who need specialist education but they don't meet the criteria apparently so we have to try our best. Staff regularly get physically hurt as do other children.

By all means speak to the school about your concerns regarding the safety of your child. The rest is none of your business.

[longdiling]

Honestly, if your child gets on well with them and hasn't been hurt by them I'd keep your beak out. Bear in mind that a lot of what you are hearing - presumably from your child or playground gossips might be exaggerated or untrue anyway. My eldest had a child with similar issues in her class and he never touched her in their entire primary school career. I always assumed the teachers were well aware of his issues and had enough parents knocking on their door who had kids who'd been directly affected. Me going in wanting to talk about a theoretical issue in the future seemed pointless.

[Sancia]

How exactly does a school 'manage' a child who throttles other children and throws chairs through windows? What did they 'fail' to do? Bar the windows? Pay for a security guard? What 'support' exists that they can offer him that prevents this kind of behaviour?

[insan1tyscartching]

A group of parents started a petition to have my ds removed, the ringleaders were offered pen and paper to withdraw their own children as HT said ds was staying. With tweaks made to ds's support ds caused no more problems I have a feeling though that the petition ringleaders had their cards firmly marked so do be careful with how you approach the HT won't you?

[longdiling]

Christ, that's awful insanity :( some parents can get very pitchfork-y about stuff like this. They whip themselves up into a frenzy and make the situation worse, not to mention forgetting that there's a child at the centre of it.

[LoudBatPerson]

How exactly does a school 'manage' a child who throttles other children and throws chairs through windows? What did they 'fail' to do? Bar the windows? Pay for a security guard? What 'support' exists that they can offer him that prevents this kind of behaviour?

^This shows a complete misunderstanding of what is meant by the child's needs not being met. It is not a case of the school not being able to stop the behaviors whilst happening, it is having the right support and resources in place to support the child so they are in control and do not reach the level where the child is lashing out.

Without knowing the child it is impossible to say where the root of the problematic behavior comes from, but it is that need/trigger point that needs addressing for the outbursts to stop. The behavior shown is a symptom of another problem or issue that is not begin supported. That is where the child's needs are failing to be met.

[RealityCheque]

The child should not be in mainstream school as is evident by the teacher (and other) who have commented along the lines of "what can the school do"?

You should have a meeting with the school but the fact that he was strangling another child means that anything they say about safeguarding your (and other) child is frankly not worth the oxygen used.

It is a safeguarding issue and that incident SHOULD have been referred to the local safeguarding team by the school. Anyone can make a referral, though.

[SvenandSven]

The problem is mainstream can never be fully inclusive for children with sen. I do really feel for all involved in these situations as all the children have a right to a safe place to learn.
For what schools could do to help there are numerous things but it all depends on the attitude of school and parents. And if they can work together rather than
Simple things as visual aids, timeline and prompts an understanding of conditions such as autism, adhd etc and the sensory issues they can involve.
Areas of safe place for the sen child where they can calm if needed or even a run around or a calming activity the child responds to.
1:1 support.
Involving outside agency support.
Reward systems that include the motivator for the child.