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To think this was a crime (school related)

(63 Posts)
youarenotkiddingme Thu 22-Sep-16 19:08:00

A few months ago a student pulled a knife out of their pocket in class and aimed it towards DS.

I was phoned, told DS was fine, student removed etc and it was written on parent page as I was informed there had been an altercation between DS and another student, student pulled a knife. Ds was neither threatened not hurt.

School said police involved and DS made a statement. Police had no record of incident and so opened a case stating it as "common assault".

Police went into school, spoke to DHT and sent an email saying stories were 'similar' and school dealt with it correctly.

I decided no charges to be bought.

Ds hasn't been able to attend as HT woukdnt meet with me and DS too anxious. They woukdnt authorise absense despite him seeing GP about anxiety relating to this event (DS is already a under Camhs).

He is on a MM.

Complaint in about it as school failed to respond to previous concerns with this lad and support DS after. They are saying no crime as police agreed school dealt with it properly and the only reports are DS statement and one from teacher who fully admits he didn't see what happened until he was informed student had a knife.

Their defense is no crime so not safeguarding issue.

But this is a crime? He was carrying a weapon and he pulled the weapon?

Can I also retropesctively press charges and so a proper investigation is carried out and witness statements sought?

Jimbob1 Thu 22-Sep-16 19:17:09

Of course it is a crime. If someone stole from me and I got the item back (maybe child stole it and parents return possessions) it is still a crime even though I have not had police involvement.
Not sure how pressing charges will help here though. You need to go to the school and ask for support. Crime or not this incident has had an impact on your son whilst he was in their care. They need to help him.

Flum Thu 22-Sep-16 19:21:23

Sorry too many initials in here for me to understand. Should this be under a more specialist topic? What is Cahms? MM? DHT? HT?

Of course the child is anxious, I wouldn't want to go back either if that had happened to me. Can you change him to a different school maybe?nif he is too worried to go back there.

HicDraconis Thu 22-Sep-16 19:28:20

Camhs is shorthand for a branch of the mental health services.
HT and DHT quite clearly head teacher and deputy head teacher.

This is completely a safeguarding issue regardless of whether or not the school feel a crime has been committed. Your DS has been threatened with a knife, is already suffering with anxiety and should be supported at home (authorised) until the school can guarantee his safety.

I'm not sure whether it is possible to reopen an investigation once closed, presumably you were given some form of police contact at the time? May be worth calling and asking them.

LagunaBubbles Thu 22-Sep-16 19:30:22

What is MM?

TeenAndTween Thu 22-Sep-16 19:32:23

MM = managed move I would expect, where a child is supported in transferring to a different school

PoppyStellar Thu 22-Sep-16 19:33:54

MM is managed move - where a pupil is sent to another school usually as a final step to avoid permanent exclusion but can be used for other reasons as in this case where I would guess it's being suggested as a way to protect the pupil and perhaps move him to a school that they feel can better support him

PoppyStellar Thu 22-Sep-16 19:34:22

X post!

Whatsername17 Thu 22-Sep-16 19:34:57

Managed move. It means the op's son was taken to a panel of local schools, his case presented and another school agreed to take him. I assume your dh has behavioural issues? I only assume as I attend these meetings on my schools behalf and mm are only usually for pupils in danger of being permanently excluded. I agree it was a crime but I'm unsure of what your complaint is? Is it that the school won't authorise the absence?

paulapantsdown Thu 22-Sep-16 19:53:54

This happened with a year 8 kid at the school I work in. The pupil did not tell anyone at school until they got home and told parents, who arrived up to reception at 8.30am next day.

The child with the penknife was permenantly excluded by 10am.

booklooker Thu 22-Sep-16 20:09:32

Ds was neither threatened not hurt.

Sorry, but I seem to be missing the crime here.

Your son got into a fight, but was not threatened or hurt. What was the crime?

youarenotkiddingme Thu 22-Sep-16 20:15:08

No da doesn't have behavioural issues (as such!) he has ASD so has a disability and is vunerable and has some Sen (learning needs) related to poor fine motor skills, slow processing speed and extremely poor spelling and poor reading and ability to infer from text.

Previous issues with school denying problems and saying DS anxiety, meltdowns at home and self harm which resulted in referral to Camhs by GP are normal because he's autistic and not a school issue as he's fine and masks there.

Managed move is indeed MM. Ds is on his third week now (he was out of school the whole of July).
It was suggested previous to this incident when I asked to meet with regards same pupil and bullying as I didn't trust school.

Ds was not supported to return. HT refused to meet with me after incident as didn't see what it would acheive and felt school had dealt with it and DS marked as unauthorised absence because they expected him to return and he refused.

I'm currently looking for literature because I'm sure just carrying a weapon is an offence?

youarenotkiddingme Thu 22-Sep-16 20:17:40

Dis didn't get into a fight. The other student pulled the knife in class. School do not accuse DS of doing anything prior to this.

DHT did tell him student said he had knife as scared of DS!

Interesting when there's lots of previous evidence of this lad hurting DS! Which wasn't dealt with.

booklooker Thu 22-Sep-16 22:06:49

But you stated in your OP he was not threatened or hurt.

Waffles80 Thu 22-Sep-16 22:11:29

Are you absolutely mad, Booklooker.

A child pulled a knife on another child, the OP's son. That is indeed a crime.

The child should be permanently excluded for evening bringing a knife into school, never mind opening it and aiming it at someone.

CauliflowerSqueeze Thu 22-Sep-16 22:24:05

Crime is victim led. If he said he didn't want to press charges or report it then unless you do as a parent, it would not be recorded as such. You said you didn't press charges.

Most schools would permanently exclude a child for having a knife in school and threatening someone with it. You said he wasn't hurt and wasn't threatened. I would say he was threatened even if he didnt feel threatened by this action.

CauliflowerSqueeze Thu 22-Sep-16 22:25:05

Why is this still rumbling on anyway? How's the Mm going? Does it seem successful so far?

Itsallgoodimtold Thu 22-Sep-16 22:32:47

I don't understand why the student with the knife was not permanently excluded or put on a managed move. I understand they may think your son may feel safer in another school but the perpetrator needs to be held to account. What punishment has been given?

Itsallgoodimtold Thu 22-Sep-16 22:35:54

Surely bringing a knife into school can't be allowed as a defensive action. If they really believe he was right to do this then there are serious behaviour management issues going on.

DoreenLethal Thu 22-Sep-16 22:40:07

But you stated in your OP he was not threatened or hurt.

Quite right, i suspect the knife was pulled to make him feel safe and secure a school, no threat here at all.

Jaysus. Some people.

delboysfileofax Thu 22-Sep-16 22:50:38

You don't "press charges" in the UK. The police/cps decide whether charges go ahead depending on the offence, obviously if a victim isn't supporting the police by providing a statement then it tends not to go any further. Whilst technically an assault has occurred, it would be at the lowest level. If it has been in the last 6 months the police might look at it again, longer then that legally they couldn't do anything

JudyCoolibar Thu 22-Sep-16 22:59:39

Can you get your doctor to do a note saying your son can't return to school for medical reasons, i.e. his anxiety, and that that has been the case since the incident? That way they will have no choice but to record the absence as authorised. Also, if he can't go back to school, you could use it to support a request for home tuition.

And yes, of course this is a crime - both possession of an offensive weapon and threatening behaviour. It looks as if it is the school who said OP's son was not threatened or hurt, not OP: but absolutely if another child pulled a knife on him, he was threatened. School seems to be doing its utmost to minimise it. However, it does look as if the police may not be keen on prosecuting if there is no independent witness.

CremeBrulee Thu 22-Sep-16 23:03:37

I don't understand how you can say 'he was neither threatened nor hurt' if the outcome of this incident has been that your DS is now too anxious to continue to attend school. Isn't the severe anxiety itself proof that he is suffering from a feeling of underlying threat??

PerspicaciaTick Thu 22-Sep-16 23:09:48

I think that is quite possible to have safeguarding issues or concerns which haven't escalated to the point of being a crime - presumably one aspect of safeguarding to try and put measures in places to prevent issues escalating into criminality and physical violence?
It sounds like the school are ineffectual at best and should be doing more to support your ds in his return to school.

e1y1 Thu 22-Sep-16 23:13:34

Are some people really trying to suggest that ANYONE pulling a knife on someone is NOT a crime?

No words shock

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