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To think far too many secondary school pupils are Bing failed because it's the 'easy option?'

(24 Posts)
youarenotkiddingme Sat 17-Sep-16 22:07:34

I've posted for support with regards DS situation over the past year.

I'm not sure if I've notice an increase in posts or are just drawn to then via empathy but there seems to be an increasing culture of victims of bullying and children with Sen being the ones who have disrupted education.

Most posters, including myself, are having to go through the complaints procedure - usually for safeguarding - yet it continues so there must be a failure somewhere at a higher level to be collating this data and actively make changes to prevent it happening over and over.

And all the while this is happening pupils all over the country are not receiving an education.

I'd be interested to hear others stories who are in a similar situation, or have been through similar.
Including any ideas about how collectively, as parents and guardians, we can work to change this.

cardibach Sat 17-Sep-16 22:12:39

I'm not sure what your situation is, tbh. I can't make much sense of your post.

youarenotkiddingme Sat 17-Sep-16 22:16:35

That vunerable students who are victims of bullying or have Sen are not being supported and numerous times end up being out of education or being the students that have to move.

The number of times the victim of bullying has to leave a school because of a lack of dealing with the problem is too high IMO. 1 student forced to leave is too many and I've read of at least 3 cases this week.

PrincessHairyMclary Sat 17-Sep-16 22:26:06

If they are being failed then it is by the Government and cuts to funding.

There are around 7 TAs in my secondary school for over 800 students many with SEND and Behavioural difficulties. We cannot support them all, priority has to be given to those with Medical needs when it may well be the child with behavioural needs who needs more support.

Bullying is terrible in all it's guises but if violence occurs as a response to non - violent provocation rightly or wrongly the chances are the one who lashed out will be excluded regardless of SEN needs in order for the school to be seen to keep students safe.

ReallyTired Sat 17-Sep-16 22:28:22

Some victims of bullying are bullies themselves. There is one boy in my son's class who made fun of my son's walking gait. The bully is currently off school because he has been bullied by other children. Frankly it's karma in action.

There is little point in seperating children into victims and bullies. It's better to help children learn to resolve conflict, develop assertiveness skills and social skills. Many conflicts have wrongs on both sides. It's rare that a child is complete innocent. Many parents make the situation worse by telling their child to punch or be nasty back.

If a child is constantly changing schools because of bullying then that child needs help. The problem is that this help is not readily available.

youarenotkiddingme Sat 17-Sep-16 22:35:34

Yes i agree cuts and funding are likely have a large part to play.

I also know the number of LSA in secondary is extremely low per student. That means many students don't get the support they need.

From a send POV that creates difficulties in getting an EHCP because schools haven't exhausted all options. Which I admit, in some cases, can't be exhausted because they literally don't have the funds.

But there are other cases where bullying is ignored, or denied, or worse still in my DS case covered up through a web of lies.

In the case of my DS they've spent more time and energy creating an unnecessary battle and covering their failings than DS needed to be able to access education.

I'm happy to give a very short description of events but my thread is more about the bigger issue than my particular one iyswim? There's also currently a thread in AIBU regarding bullying.

Noodledoodledoo Sat 17-Sep-16 22:38:59

It is funding that is the issue. Last year I taught nearly 180 students, approximately 50 of them had some level of SEND recorded but only one had a statement. I only had LSA support in one classes lessons. One of my classes had nearly 80% of the class of 28 with something but no statement so no support - this was an exam class as well.

I probably did 'fail' some of my students as all 50 had individual requirements for support which I could remember the main parts but the detail included in their 3 page individual plan no so much.

youarenotkiddingme Sat 17-Sep-16 22:55:21

I don't think teachers are failing pupils. Certainly despite everything DS went through the teachers is his school were caring and aware of his needs.
Unable to meet them - but certainly willing to put in the effort to try.

I agree the are failures to pupils in class because the support isn't there - but I'm talking about active failure. Deliberate failure by not even attempting to support the child.

I have experienced, in my DS case, where they've tried to use a teacher as a scapegoat which I put a stop to straightaway by showing how they had proactively attempted to find a way to differentiate his lesson meet (logged!) needs that senior management did everything they could to deny DS even had.

ReallyTired Sat 17-Sep-16 22:59:09

CAHMs is poorly equipped to support children with anxiety/ bullying issues. Often teachers lack the training.

SharonfromEON Sat 17-Sep-16 23:03:09

I think many children are failed with bullying. I am not sure it is just a SEN problem.

OwlinaTree Sat 17-Sep-16 23:05:27

In all honesty I think this is in part due to academization. Schools can set their own criteria for entry and have to purchase SEN support from outside agencies. In state schools they would be allocated some LA support for SEN, so no choice as to whether to spend money on this or put towards new books for eg. Also EP assessments would presumably be paid for out of school budget. Add this to the pressure of results, and you can see why academies are not falling over themselves to admit any pupil that is going to cost them additional amounts. There could be some element of hoping children having problems will move on if unhappy, so they do the minimum.

I'm sure not all academies act in this way, but these are some of the reasons I dislike the academy system.

youarenotkiddingme Sat 17-Sep-16 23:22:33

Ds schools was/is an academy. I believe what you say.

I've maintained they forced DS out because he cost too much for little return as his Sen means he'll struggle to meet expected targets based on cognitive ability.

In our case the issue was 2 fold. Sold to me as ASD specialists but once in didn't want to support the needs he had. Failure to act on any Sen unless professional report - that I was left to seek through self referral. Unwilling to accept current when started EP report as was 16 months old so 'out of date' so woukdnt provide support he was getting based on that report - yet woukdnt get EP in to see DS.
Then when reports came through unwilling to accept the needs outlined denying they exist. Even when gp referred to Camhs for anxiety and Camhs referred to primary health service they refused to accept he had anxiety and were confrontational with DS about it. He can't argue or communicate against that due to his sn.

ds hasn't set foot in the school since a student pulled a knife on him in class.

insan1tyscartching Sat 17-Sep-16 23:31:28

Dd had incredibly poor support in y7 in spite of having a decent statement that was fully funded by the LA. I used a safeguarding fail and a breach of confidentiality to turn the screws and dd has reasonably good support now.
It is definitely not typical of the support given to SEN pupils in that school but it is in place because the HT oversees dd's support and I am known as the parent you had better not cross wink
I have forced the school to document all dd's support and I find that is the best way to ensure that dd actually gets the support she should be getting. If it's not documented and I can't see the evidence then it isn't being done and so I complain direct to HT and it is sorted because he knows there are no more second chances as far as dd is concerned.
It shouldn't have to be like this but it has been my experience that SEN support isn't a priority, that many of the TA's have been far from willing and or able and the knowledge of the SENCo isn't exactly wide or deep (she didn't even know the appeal to Tribunal process)
There are plenty of teachers though who want and are able to be supportive but quite often that is without the knowledge of the needs or the support needed from the statement and without any real guidance from the SENCo in dd's school anyway.

CodyKing Sun 18-Sep-16 21:14:13

* It's rare that a child is complete innocent.*

What complete rubbish !!!

DD watched as a SEN girl sat quietly on an iPad whilst a group of boys swore at threw things at her - this isn't unusual -

DD was bullied DS moved schools not because he was bullied but because of the disruption caused by a child being bullied

Poor child was dead with learning difficulties- assume he wasn't innocent either - ??

CodyKing Sun 18-Sep-16 21:42:11

What can you do?

Libby the government

Train all teachers in the effects of government - on children and families education and friendships

Teach children they have the power to stop bullying and punish those who don't report it as equal bullies

Put in place a system of all reports in one central log - so a pattern emerges - not just X in Y but X on C or H

Make bullies do an awareness coarse every time they continue

Ensure every incident is recorded and parents are involved

Make the punishment fit the crime - disruptive in lessons - 30 kids X 5 mins wasted time? Waste theirs

Make them do jobs around the school.- or write apology letters

Ensure each complaint about bullying is reported to the governors - as it should be - parents to be copied in to the correspondence so the know it's been done

Governors to record and set review dates and ensure anything pit in place is working/effective

Three count of complaint - ensures bully in removed from tutor group into another one -

CHAMS is struggling with MH issues and is under funded - how many are victims of bullying?

CodyKing Sun 18-Sep-16 21:44:24

Oh one more point

Give parents a list of options in the admissions pack

Safeguarding team
Support workers
Policies - complaints bullying and behaviour

youarenotkiddingme Sun 18-Sep-16 21:55:44

Great ideas cody

I love lobbying the government. I think it would be great if we could get a whole host of people together who have complained and had it upheld to approach them and show them.

Central log is a great idea. Maybe there needs to be something written in a policy and a bullying complaints form available like the one schools give for complaints when it's not dealt with.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 18-Sep-16 21:56:23

there are so many things with the system it is unreal.

the re-evaluating of SEN so that many pupils disappear of the SEN registers.
Reduction of funding to remove TA's and pastoral care.
Schools not passing on ECHPs
Schools cancelling EHCPs so that the new school has to build a case for one to be implemented.
Then with bullies not being able to implement sanctions
Having to hoop jump through a whole host of meaningless checklists just to say that they have done them.
Not being able to create sanctions that would have purpose
schools having to pay for children to go to a PRU or other education establishment.

And there are many many more.

SingaSong12 Sun 18-Sep-16 22:12:09

*Teach children they have the power to stop bullying and punish those who don't report it as equal bullies*

Do you mean the victim or others around? If you mean others who egg on a bully that might be fair though I'd class that as bullying in itself.
Otherwise I don't think it's fair at all. Yes try to build a culture where everyone does something about bullying but not reporting shouldn't be punishable.

DaphneCanDoBetterThanFred Sun 18-Sep-16 23:47:06

I read about this Norwegian anti-bullying project recently, and it sounds like it's really effective. It would be incredible if it could be rolled out across UK schools too. Teachers I know try to create this kind of atmosphere in their classrooms, but it really needs to be more widespread.

Norwegian bullying prevention program

CodyKing Mon 19-Sep-16 07:25:44

Yes - I do mean any child who witnesses bullying treated equally as if they are a bully -

If you stand by and watch you are agreeing with it -

Children know what's happening and feel 'everybody' hates them because nobody helped or reported it -

If these kids stepped up bullying would stop

CodyKing Mon 19-Sep-16 07:29:00

* witnessing and not reporting

Starsinthedark Mon 19-Sep-16 07:34:46

I think that the problem is that some types of bullying can be very insidious and difficult to stop because it doesn't necessarily 'look' to be bullying. I had this type of bullying throughout my school days, really, and whilst it upset me then thinking the teachers didn't care, I now think they did but were in their way as powerless as me.

BingToy Fri 23-Dec-16 12:55:15

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

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