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First woman to fight on the frontline

(374 Posts)

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napmeistergeneral Sat 17-Sep-16 02:22:39

Transgender woman becomes "first female" in British army to serve on frontline.
Link is to the guardian but covered by other outlets also.

I don't doubt it's an incredibly hard and scary thing to be a trans woman in the army and for that chloe deserves support and praise. But I'm afraid I still feel unconvinced by the "first woman" claim.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable and unconvinced about firsts for women being claimed by trans women?

TallulahTheTiger Sat 17-Sep-16 03:05:54

Not at all- DH and I both ex-forces. The female on front line thing initial was related to fact front line meant infantry. And women were not in infantry. Recent war/fighting has changed this and women are medics, artillery, linguists etc etc. but women were not infantry or front line as far as I'm awate due to like in Olympics- physical differences. Generally male skeleton and physical prowess is difference from female allowing more powerful and faster body. (I hope am making sense as writing while feeding a newborn!) despite now identitying as a female. This soldier has born with a male physical body- it's very different.

MalodyandJim Sat 17-Sep-16 03:08:39

This is a woman? Really? Keep drinking the kool aid people

MalodyandJim Sat 17-Sep-16 03:10:04

Oh sorry, just read the article. Chloe wears women's clothes, earrings and paints her nails.....of course she's a woman. Fucking stop the world I want to get off

minatiae Sat 17-Sep-16 03:13:00

This is ridiculous.

This person is the first transwoman to fight in the army. NOT the first woman.

MalodyandJim Sat 17-Sep-16 03:24:16


user1471734618 Sat 17-Sep-16 04:07:01

oh FFS if that is a woman then I am Rambo

stitchglitched Sat 17-Sep-16 04:29:56

He wears nail polish and earrings and was apparently spotted wearing woman's clothes so decided to come out as trans. He would probably get more understanding than if he said he was a cross dresser. This person is not a woman, they have a male body, male strength and male socialisation. They should not be used in anyway in the discussion or as an example about actual females being on the front line. Reminds me of when Kellie Maloney said she was proof that women can make it to the top in boxing.

MaryTheCanary Sat 17-Sep-16 04:34:36

I respect anyone who fights on the front line, but I agree that this is not material for discussing women in ground close combat. The person has been through a male adolescence--doing some hormone treatment now is now going magically undo that!

ohdearme1958 Sat 17-Sep-16 04:40:04

Nope. It's not a woman.

LeonardInTheArgosBag Sat 17-Sep-16 04:45:22

Hang on, I don't paint my nails, wear dresses or fight on the front line.

Am I a woman?

BillSykesDog Sat 17-Sep-16 04:45:33

Like all these 'men' having babies really isn't it?

MidniteScribbler Sat 17-Sep-16 06:47:22

That is NOT a woman, and it will be a cold day in hell before I ever refer to them as such.

sashh Sat 17-Sep-16 06:54:42

He wears nail polish and earrings and was apparently spotted wearing woman's clothes

So is Eddie Izard a woman now? I wonder if he knows?

PikachuSayBoo Sat 17-Sep-16 07:04:34

I don't wear earrings or paint my nails.

Shit, am I a man?

WantToGoHome Sat 17-Sep-16 07:53:27

sashh Eddie Izzard has boy and girl genes.

PatsHatOnTheCat Sat 17-Sep-16 07:56:52

Woman? My arse is he a woman.


britnay Sat 17-Sep-16 07:58:16

That reminds me of the guy in M*A*S*H (Max Klinger?) who wore women's clothing to try and get OUT of military duty...

exLtEveDallas Sat 17-Sep-16 08:04:55

This is such bollocks. When I was serving there were a number of trans soldiers. The only difference is that this one is in the Infantry. However a number of the others have been 'front line' and involved in actual battles.

A complete non-news story.

hownottofuckup Sat 17-Sep-16 08:05:11

She is not the first woman on the front line, she may be the first trans woman? I don't know, but the distinction should be made. Especially by the general media. The Guardian should know better.
It's classic "double think" and scares the shit out of me tbh.

NotMe321 Sat 17-Sep-16 08:20:09

Oh look, another trans-bashing thread. What a novelty.
<Hides thread>

Seeyouontheotherside Sat 17-Sep-16 08:20:30

Male body, male skeleton, male muscle mass, male strength. Since when did wearing nail polish and skirts become the definition of a woman? That is incredibly misogynistic and degrading to women.

TrojanWhore Sat 17-Sep-16 08:34:27

Agree, LtEve, I do not think there is much realisation of the the number of transgender people in the British Armed Forces, and that this is only news because of the (narrow/specific) definition of 'frontline' as infantry.

And this is much better than the treatment handed out to Jan Hamilton (ex-para).

And I think comments on the individual's appearance are just as shitty in this context as they are in any other. It's perfectly clear from the interview that hormone therapy has only just begun. And that she was ready to leave her regiment (as others have done in the past) had the ban not been lifted.

LunaLoveg00d Sat 17-Sep-16 08:56:09

This person has expressed a desire to call herself Chloe and be referred to as she/her. No problem with that - I would respect Chloe as I would any other person and wouldn't go out of my way to offend her by deliberately calling her "him" or using her previous male name. Chloe is free to paint her nails and wear whatever she chooses. Again, her choice and I believe that everyone should wear what they want.

However, Chloe cannot change the basic rules of biology and even after completing hormone therapy, Chloe will still be a transwoman and not a woman.

MaudlinNamechange Sat 17-Sep-16 09:02:32

The word "female" in the Guardian article really bothers me. I feel like there was a time when "woman" got separated from "female" so that transwomen could have it. Now it seems like "female" has changed meaning too. I don't get how such a very specific word with many non-human non-social applications can suddenly, so radically, mean something else, just because of a rather niche and specific and occasional human circumstance.

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