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To wonder which ' Comprehensive school will be the first to change in to a Grammar school.

(25 Posts)
sunshield Thu 15-Sep-16 16:30:15

I wonder which schools have already posted their applications in the post box!

It is going to be fascinating who is going to be the first to declare their intention to become a grammar. I personally think the first out of the box if you like will be Dame Alice Owen's , the two Watford ' Grammars' and other 'Comps' of similar ilk!

However, the proposals stating that any school can become selective, could lead to some interesting other potential ideas ! A 'bizzare' but feasible is the possibility that a high performing Modern school (such as Wellington/Waddesdon ) could set an exam . The exam might be set at a level that 80 % of the current cohort would pass, however meaning the few low ability pupils would not pass.

This means you would have the 'strange' situation of 'Grammar' being created (albeit a low admittance one).

2014newme Thu 15-Sep-16 16:31:57

Me too. I actually think some fee paying schools with falling rolls will see this as a saviour and they will be first to convert.

smallfox2002 Thu 15-Sep-16 17:03:47

There is already selection at those schools that your list. I don't think the new legislation is set to allow.more super selective schools but more.schools like the ones you mention.

Brandonstarkflakes Thu 15-Sep-16 17:10:56

Yes, you already need to take a test for Dame Alice anyway don't you?

Marmitelover55 Thu 15-Sep-16 17:17:40

I think the schools that use fair-banding might find it easiest to convert.

CecilyP Thu 15-Sep-16 17:21:10

The last time I looked, out of an intake of 200, DAO took 65 by academic selection, 10 by music ability, 20 from Islington, then siblings of existing pupils, then the rest by distance.

smallfox2002 Thu 15-Sep-16 17:39:48

I knew they weren't totally selective.. aren't the Watford ones though.

sunshield Thu 15-Sep-16 17:44:45

The Watford Grammars i believe are the same as Dame Alice Owen, Parmiters . They are selective Comprehensives which means every year they allow a tiny no of 2-3% of low attainers access to the school. Watford, Dame Alice Owen might be short end of the wedge

sunshield Thu 15-Sep-16 17:51:37

The idea that Modern schools being allowed in to select Horrifies me . I have a YR 9 son in a Modern school and he is doing ok , i would have preferred he had been taught in the same school as his elder sisters, denied this by the dammed 11+.

YelloDraw Thu 15-Sep-16 17:56:35

One in a rich area with very low FSM

CecilyP Thu 15-Sep-16 18:01:08

Obviously, the only schools that will be able to this will be those which are already oversubscribed.

JasperDamerel Thu 15-Sep-16 18:09:50

What will happen to the children in the catchment area of the comprehensive who will be left without a local catchment school? Will the catchment areas of the other schools change to reflect the new situation or will it be a situation where any child from the old catchment who doesn't get into to the grammar ends up at the bottom of the waiting list and goes to whichever school has has places left, as presumably they will be pretty far away from the alternative schools.

sportinguista Thu 15-Sep-16 18:34:02

Well all I know is it definitely won't be our local one. If they tested as a grammar the entire intake would fail. It's the school people move to be out of catchment for.

A couple in the city might do it but they would be the ones that have high results and MC intakes. I would assume that since some children from other comps would be getting in at the grammar then that would free up spaces for those who are left in that catchment.

Witchend Thu 15-Sep-16 18:55:15

We have three local schools.
I can guarantee which one will do it. They're very pushy and have by far the best (undeserved) reputation.

However it would be interesting for a few reasons. Firstly the last couple of years their results have been pretty poor-certainly below the other schools. They've released statements saying something along the lines of "it's not fair the exam boards are making harder and that's why the results look bad." Which is odd because they use the same exam boards as the other schools.
They're also huge and I suspect too big to entirely turn into a grammar (2 of the local schools are huge (around 12 classes) and the third is around 4 classes.
The other huge school was originally grammar and secondary modern and still is split site, so could work that out (although they've already said they have no interest in doing that).

I think the best could be if the smallest school went for grammar for lots of reasons. Firstly: it's historically failing, although it is out of special measures now and hoping to get good shortly. From personal experience I know no one whose dc has gone to that school who has anything bad to say about the school. It really does seem to look after the pupils.
Because of its history it's reputation is dreadful and is often the "anything but" school people talk about.

SO if they became a grammar then I think it could work out quite well for all three schools.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Thu 15-Sep-16 19:08:24

I could imagine ours doing it. They're a former grammar in a market town with an outstanding more vocational comprehensive plus various rural comps in different directions, all of which are pretty good. It would be an easy way to mark themselves out from the other good comps, hoover up more of the brightest kids and get rid of need to teach the less academically able, which they have never been very good at.
I hope they don't, even though dd is there and I have always liked grammars, because it seems to me that the situation is working pretty well in terms of parental choice. It's the areas where there is no access at all to a reasonable academic education that could do with a nearby grammar.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Thu 15-Sep-16 19:10:38

They are also the most likely of all the local schools to be allowed to, because the other school is there as a local alternative.

MumTryingHerBest Thu 15-Sep-16 19:13:23

sunshield Thu 15-Sep-16 16:30:15 I personally think the first out of the box if you like will be Dame Alice Owen's , the two Watford ' Grammars' and other 'Comps' of similar ilk!

All those are quite possible (particularly if there are financial incentives). However, I suspect St Clement Danes maybe the first:

IcedVanillaLatte Thu 15-Sep-16 19:16:24

The exam might be set at a level that 80 % of the current cohort would pass, however meaning the few low ability pupils would not pass.

I know this is sixth form, so it's different, and I also can't find a nice ranked table later than 2013, but I study at an FE college that had the second-lowest average A level results in the county, in the 2013 table. The 6th form college across the road was the highest non-independent performer in the county. My college takes mostly students studying for vocational and technical qualifications, but also offers A levels. So we often get the less academic A level students. It's interesting - the learning support and pastoral support at my college are superb, but I've heard that the ones at the 6th form college aren't. Every year, we get a few A level students coming over from the 6th form shortly after the start of the year who found it too stressful or weren't getting the right support. Although it's "selection" (partly self-selection, probably, partly some people who want to do them alongside BTEC I think, partly those who didn't get the GCSE grades the 6th form wants), the people at my college don't really feel like poor relations. It's a better service for those students. So my college ends up at the bottom of the league tables no matter how good it is. It's almost like the 80% grammar situation you describe. Strange setup. And I suppose, from the 6th form's perspective, keeps the riffraff out…

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, but it's an unusual situation. It probably works a lot better at FE than it would for secondaries!

IcedVanillaLatte Thu 15-Sep-16 19:47:32

Of course, it's more complicated that that; feeder schools, people coming from a wider area, etc., but interesting to see both side by side like that. I like my college grin

sandyholme Fri 16-Sep-16 21:09:49

It would make perfect sense for 'Comprehensive' schools that select up to 50% of their pupils to seek the dissolution of any forced admission requirements . Therefore it is likely the names mentioned above are likely to be at the front of the queue , to declare their intention to become a grammar.

annandale Fri 16-Sep-16 21:14:38

Id quite like it if all schools became grammar schools.

sandyholme Fri 16-Sep-16 21:16:33

So that makes you anti grammar schools then ?

sandyholme Mon 19-Sep-16 13:26:47

The answer to the question is here:


sandyholme Mon 19-Sep-16 13:27:32

sandyholme Mon 19-Sep-16 14:18:29

Meopham school has to undergo a massive transformation because currently they only have 17% high ability students and 28% low ability students !

I wonder if an exam the type of mentioned above where 80 % of the schools cohort would pass might be the type used, i.e requiring significantly lower attainment than the current Kent test!

The resultant cohort could match the top 40% suggested by me.

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