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To want to know the bonus structure

(17 Posts)
Charlie97 Mon 12-Sep-16 21:20:17

Joined a new company in May, at interview they confirmed a bonus structure but didn't elaborate.

Got contract and to my shame, it didn't confirm the structure and what is paid.

So, they've suddenly decided that they are aiming for a higher level than they thought in May. It's doable, but only if I work a lot of additional hours. The partners will also have to work hard, but if they achieve the target, then it's ££££££££s for them.

So, I faked today........ If we hit this target, what's the actual bonus. They clearly were uncomfortable about being asked. The answer was between 5-10% of salary, which is a huge differential. Also, will it be pro-rata based on months worked? Don't know was the answer.

So, I could work all the hours and get a really good bonus, or a few hundred quid (while the get £1,000s) and have worked loads of hours extra.

AIBU wanting to know what I am aiming for? If it's too end, I'll work extra hours, weekends etc but I don't want egg on my face by them giving me a raw deal?

Emz449 Mon 12-Sep-16 21:25:23

99% it'll be pro-rata. Is it a quarterly/half/full year bonus? I'd ask more questions before signing up to do all hours under the sun to get potentially a small percentage. Is there a HR/ manager you could speak to?

Emz449 Mon 12-Sep-16 21:27:15

Also between 5-10% is this performance based? It we hit different levels in our performance reviews then we would get a different bonus percentage. Outstanding would be the biggest percentage you could get

WhereYouLeftIt Mon 12-Sep-16 21:29:26

YANBU. A bonus is meant to incentivise you, how can it do that if you don't know what it is or how it is calculated? I would press for full details (including what would qualify for 10% and what for 5%) and be very suspicious if they prevaricated. Because that would suggest they want you to do the work but on the cheap.

Charlie97 Mon 12-Sep-16 21:29:30

I totally accept the pro rata bit, that's only fair. It's the between 5%-10% based on nothing! It's a definitive we must read £xxxx for them to get their "reward" which they know what that is. But they are unable to tell me what my reward will be? Seems unfair? Is it based on how they feel that day?


Charlie97 Mon 12-Sep-16 21:30:34

Sorry, no HR, very small company which is a subsidiary of a larger company. Hence they know what they get from the larger company!

altiara Mon 12-Sep-16 21:47:29

YANBU! As for it in writing!

WhereYouLeftIt Mon 12-Sep-16 23:51:32

f they can't tell you how your bonus will be calculated, I can guarantee that it will be very small and not worth the additional hours. Maybe around minimum wage for those hours. Or less.

PaperdollCartoon Mon 12-Sep-16 23:54:52

YANBU this is basic information. It's exactly meant to incentivise you to work more, if it's performance based you need to know what your targets are. Ask for it in writing, say you'd expected to have it already.

I will say I don't know what my bonus will be, but I work for an employee owned company where my bonus is a profit share and we don't yet know what the profit is and how it will be split, but it's very transparent and we all know what the deal is. Your situation doesn't sound like this.

Lorelei76 Tue 13-Sep-16 00:03:17

sounds to me like they are offering a discretionary bonus and just fudging figures to make it look official.

sorry to say this but a friend of mine has had a shocking bonus this year - when they hired her it was based on similar wooliness. She put in a ton of extra hours because the thing about hitting targets was similar. Now what's happened is the most senior people have got the higher % they were told about but the less senior people haven't even got the minimum.

My experience is that unless it actually states "you will get x% of all sales per event" (just using a random example there), it's effectively discretionary.

Charlie97 Tue 13-Sep-16 06:17:03

Yes, I pretty much feel that it's a "how I feel on the day" figure. Which is just unfair.

I need to get across in a non confrontational way that I'm not going to be working my socks off for a vague promise. When I broached it yesterday, it was a "you can trust us", I really feel I can't! They are difficult people to work for, they are not keen on sharing their success. Staff members have not had a pay rise for over two years, despite great success for the company.

I personally think it is totally unprofessional. They know exactly what it means to them, so it's not like it's vague for them.

The situation is simple, without additional work above and beyond my normal working hours, they will not achieve.

Any idea on how I pitch this, without it sounding like "if you don't give me the bonus I want, then I have the power to stop you a curving your goal".

Lorelei76 Tue 13-Sep-16 09:52:25

I don't think you can or should try to pitch anything

Also, can you really stop them achieving that? What happens if anyone gets really ill for example? Have they set up the business with no contingency like that (some places do, not suggesting it's impossible).

places like are well aware that a good member of staff might leave if they don't get a decent bonus, but you are new so easy to get rid of anyway

I guess it depends how high up you are in the structure but my feeling is that you would not be posting here if you felt there was any chance of getting a set figure written into your contract.

usually what happens is they get a bunch of hungry people to work really hard on that vague "there'll be extra money in it for you" and then they don't give you much.

I would have a good think about whether or not you have a good negotiating position from any other aspect. For example I got a good pay rise in a place that hadn't given them for years - because 3 out of 5 of my team suddenly resigned - but of course that's the time to go in and say "more money or you lose me too" - and it only worked because of a very specific set of circumstances and also it would not have been easy to get new people in for all the roles.

Lorelei76 Tue 13-Sep-16 09:53:35

PS what happens if you just do your regular hours by the way - will it result in a lot of uncompleted work sitting on the desk?

Charlie97 Tue 13-Sep-16 12:27:35

They acknowledge that they are understaffed but cannot recruit anyone! Sector I work in is renowned for this.

It's not actually the amount, it's the carrot dangling and not being upfront and saying its "X" I object to!

Charlie97 Tue 13-Sep-16 12:28:02

Sorry yes, regular hours would lead to a nightmare workload!

Lorelei76 Tue 13-Sep-16 14:06:53

Charlie "They acknowledge that they are understaffed but cannot recruit anyone!"

translation - they are understaffed but don't wish to cut into profits and senior staff salaries by recruiting?

also, I'm not suggesting you do 11 hours work in 8 hours. I'm wondering what happens if you just do your hours - where would that extra work go?

As for the carrot, you're right to object, it's not even a real carrot, it's a carrot hologram!!!

Stevie77 Tue 13-Sep-16 14:17:53

I think now the horse has bolted really, no? You've already joined this place and the time to insist on exact written figures was negotiation stage before you accepted the job offer. I don't think there is a lot you can do, except keep asking and see what it comes to when you do get the bonus.

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