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To think that grammar school entry should be restricted to children educated in state primary schools

(159 Posts)
buffalogrumble Sun 11-Sep-16 21:27:03

It wouldn't stop tutoring, but would improve the chances of children from less well-off families. It'd also make private primary education much less attractive, thus breaking down some of the socioeconomic divide in education which starts st reception or nursery.

Gothgirl78 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:28:09

Oooh good idea

Totallyspies17 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:33:31

No! Mine go to private primary but why on earth should they not be able to access a grammar school? I know state school children much more heavily coached and tutored for 11+ than mine. Mine are definitely not going to private secondary schools so it's either grammar or state- I personally don't mind as both are good near me but the door to grammar school shouldn't be shut to my children.

KindergartenKop Sun 11-Sep-16 21:34:52

Good idea. And 20% of places to kids on fsm.

fastdaytears Sun 11-Sep-16 21:35:46

Well it makes sense if grammar schools are supposed to encourage social mobility.

When I was at a (not all that selective) grammar there were maybe 10% kids from prep schools and the rest from state, but that's rural where there just aren't that many private options, it's probably totally different in other areas.

Pestilence13610 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:37:28

It would certainly help towards those places going to children with sharp minds rather than parents with sharp elbows.

Tissunnyupnorth Sun 11-Sep-16 21:39:00

My son is at our local super selective grammar. There are 2 privately primary educated kids in his form. One went to a prep school as they were not eligible to attend either of their local primaries as one was for Catholic children and the other was for Jewish children. The primary school they were offered was in another county over 45 minutes away. They struggled to pay the fees but felt they had no alternative.

DivorceBadger Sun 11-Sep-16 21:39:02


Totallyspies17 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:39:18

Lovely ignorant stereotyping there!

ReallyTired Sun 11-Sep-16 21:39:31

I would go further and say that children need to have spent the last four years in a state primary prior to sitting the eleven plus. (Ie from year 2 onwards)

I am not sure that it's ethical to entirely ban non state school kids from the eleven plus. I think it would be fairer to restrict the number of places that they take up to 5% or the percentage of private school kids who live in catchment. Maybe there should be a higher pass mark for prep school kids.

A few days ago I read that a grammar school is four times more likely to admit a prep school child than a fsm kid according to Sutton trust statistics. I try and find the link.

DivorceBadger Sun 11-Sep-16 21:40:15

Good idea. And 20% of places to kids on fsm.

Yes to that too.

Wellywife Sun 11-Sep-16 21:40:22

I agree. Lots of people get upset that Grammars have so many prep children and so few FSM.

I said in a previous thread that maybe as part of the over subscription criteria children at local state primary schools could be prioritised over those from private schools.

Totallyspies17 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:41:29

I went to and taught in grammar schools. Hardly any private school kids.
As I said mine are on a fair playing field- they'll take test and either go to state or grammar, not private. Not heavily tutored and not taught 11+ in school. No different to other kids apart from my work happens to mean my kids have ended up in a private primary school

Totallyspies17 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:42:50

What about Montessori schools? Or schools for children who's parents are in the armed forces? Or small family run independent schools? Are they different to your stereotype of 'prep school kids'?

TeenAndTween Sun 11-Sep-16 21:44:04

I have an even better idea.
Don't have grammar schools.
Spend the effort to make all comps good.

Good comps are more than capable of enabling brighter pupils to come out with straight A/A*. And enable children with skewed profiles to be taught within ability groups. And allow for late developers. And don't rely on entry via private tutoring.

What's not to like? grin

Wellywife Sun 11-Sep-16 21:44:45

Here there are a lot of prep school DC in our local grammars. Both DS and DD have said unprompted that they wonder how some of them got in. They seem to struggle disproportionately.

Pestilence13610 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:44:58

Also help is needed with the travel and uniform costs. A £35 kilt is unaffordable to some. There needs to be a whole package put together to get a mix of socio economic backgrounds.

gillybeanz Sun 11-Sep-16 21:44:59

If we had a grammar school, all the kids would be state as we have no private schools.
If it was in the town centre, most kids could manage by bus, train, or walking.

fastdaytears Sun 11-Sep-16 21:45:01

No one is talking about stereotypes. All that has been said is that for social mobility, kids who have been privately educated up until the 11+ shouldn't be the priority.

Also if you taught at a grammar school then presumably you know they're state schools. You keep saying grammar or state which is a bit odd.

2StripedSocks Sun 11-Sep-16 21:45:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Puzzledconfusedandbewildered Sun 11-Sep-16 21:45:41


Cellardoor23 Sun 11-Sep-16 21:47:37

Totally That's how it worked where I grew up. Unless it's changed now? I was never heavily tutored. I was just given the exam from what I remember, passed and went to a grammar school. That was really it.

Overrunwithlego Sun 11-Sep-16 21:49:15

In theory I'd say YANBU. In practice, I think those parents who send their child to prep school in order to give them the best chance of attaining a grammar school place (knowing they won't also send them to private secondary school) will just send them to the state primary and pay for extra tutoring instead. Which would place extra pressure on state school places etc.

2StripedSocks Sun 11-Sep-16 21:49:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gillybeanz Sun 11-Sep-16 21:50:12


At my dd ss private school, the uniform requirements cost more than my friends dd P.E uniform at a state school, it's ridiculous. They do this to make it affordable to all their pupils, irrespective of income.

Plain black and white, no emblem on blazer, school jumper with school sign approx £20.
Buy it anywhere from Saville Row if loaded to George at Asda.

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