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To wonder how much parental support their is for grammar schools? schools

(271 Posts)
BarbarianMum Fri 09-Sep-16 12:17:01

Yet another speech from Teresa May this morning claiming that grammar schools enjoy widespread parental support. As a product of the comprehensive school system and parent of 2 boys going through the same I'm really puzzled by this. Do these schools (and the secondary moderns that go with them) really appeal to the majority? FWIW I don't think either of my boys would have any difficulty getting into one and I still don't think that they are a good idea. So what am I missing?

CocktailQueen Fri 09-Sep-16 12:19:13

Well, if you look at how many people move to a grammar catchment and tutor their dc for the 11+, then you can see there is widespread support for grammars.

Floisme Fri 09-Sep-16 12:21:46

grin at widespread support. Where I live we think you're all nuts.

BarbarianMum Fri 09-Sep-16 12:23:52

Oh ffs sake, that's so illiterate it's embarrassing. "To wonder how much support there is for grammar schools?" blush Maybe I should support them.

Cocktail Queen do you have any figures? What percentage apply? What about the parents of those who don't, or don't get in?

wasonthelist Fri 09-Sep-16 12:24:48

Zero from me, but I accept that is a very small sample size and I only have DD who is 8 - but am also thinking of all future kids

roarfeckingroar Fri 09-Sep-16 12:25:22

I'm very much in favour but I'm also very middle class and will be guilty of all the reasons that grammar schools aren't as much of a tool for social mobility as they once were.

ghostyslovesheep Fri 09-Sep-16 12:25:56

I'd repost this asking how much support there is for secondary moderns

people always talk about bringing back grammar schools but never bang on about bringing back SM

I think it's because those who like the idea all assume they child can be tutored to death and will go to the grammar

stopfuckingshoutingatme Fri 09-Sep-16 12:26:30

I fucking hate them. elitist shit.

and if I lives near one, and had a bright child. I'd apply

to reiterate I detest the UK class, race, and religion based education system- its holding us back and is the reason for many ills in this society

Unlockable Fri 09-Sep-16 12:26:45

I love them.
They have given my children a fantastic chance that they wouldn't have had otherwise

( disabled parent, 2 very bright dc on FSM, live in very deprived area with failing absolutely shite comp school on doorstep, but right on edge of county border with a grammar area)

YelloDraw Fri 09-Sep-16 12:28:36

Well, if you look at how many people move to a grammar catchment and tutor their dc for the 11+, then you can see there is widespread support for grammars.

And a huge factor in that is that in GS areas, non GS schools get fucked over. So of course if you are in a GS area you want to get your kids into the GS.

That doesn't mean parents think GS are a good system.

GS help the already advantaged children of richer parents, and further disadvantage children of poorer parents. It is a travesty TM is bringing them back.

But this is what the country voted for. A government that wants to enhance the already deep divides in our society and fuck over the poor.

Really interesting and succinct number check on GS by radio 4 more or less:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07mz0hj

Fact check:
fullfact.org/education/grammar-schools-and-social-mobility-whats-evidence/

wasonthelist Fri 09-Sep-16 12:30:00

Btw opposing Grammar schools doesn't mean I am in favour of shite comprehensives - we need good schools for everyone.

BurnTheBlackSuit Fri 09-Sep-16 12:31:04

I think what most parents actually support is getting their children the best education they can. We support whatever will benefit our children the most.

If your children are at/ will go to a fantastic comp, why would you prefer the grammar system?

YelloDraw Fri 09-Sep-16 12:31:07

They have given my children a fantastic chance that they wouldn't have had otherwise

( disabled parent, 2 very bright dc on FSM, live in very deprived area with failing absolutely shite comp school on doorstep, but right on edge of county border with a grammar area)

But rather than 'saving' a few children like yours, surely it would be better to put more money into the system to bring up all the schools in your area? That would lead to much better equality of opportunities than the slim chance that your non-tutored kids got into a GS since it is rare that kids pass the 11+ now and get selected without tutoring which is actually just selection by wealth (or did you tutor them....?)

YelloDraw Fri 09-Sep-16 12:32:34

Btw opposing Grammar schools doesn't mean I am in favour of shite comprehensives - we need good schools for everyone

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!

Yes I am shouting. Equality of educational opportunity is essential for a successful society and country.

We need more funding into the system, not another system to run concurrently and take away resource.

babybythesea Fri 09-Sep-16 12:34:28

Ghosty I was going to ask exactly the same.
Bring back grammar schools, hooray. And three cheers for the secondary modern.
Grammar schools are great unless your kid doesn't get in and has to go the alternative route. If that doesn't appeal and is a shit option, then grammar schools in general are a shit idea. Unless it is acceptable that a bunch of kids don't have access to the same education as some others.

Ego147 Fri 09-Sep-16 12:35:00

There's probably wide spread support if your child is bright enough to get into one and you can't afford to live in an area where parents 'select by house price'.

I do think that it must be very hard to have a child who has to go to a local school where 'things aren't going well' and to have little choice over the factors.

I think it's all very complicated. All children should be given the best education they can but there are many factors that affect the education they receive and that a school has little control over.

Maybe school and Government should address the issue of children who want to learn in a local school but aren't being given that opportunity - due to behaviour of others, a poor attitude towards learning and those who disrupt others' learning.

Then address those issues where teachers are so knackered they are unable to deliver high quality learning for all.

Make the curriculum more engaging and suitable for the 21st century.

Everyone deserves good quality education. That comes with rights and responsibilities.

I fear that this will leave many children behind.

papayasareyum Fri 09-Sep-16 12:36:49

I fully support grammar school and so does everyone I know. Mumsnet is mostly very left leaning though and as such, you'll get a very skewed and inaccurate representation of public opinion

Unlockable Fri 09-Sep-16 12:36:51

The proven isn't the shite schools its far far bigger than that. You need to look at why the schools are shite. And where I live that not money, investment, buildings, facilities or anything that can be fixed that easily

The school is shite because the huge majority of children that go there have parents that are completely disengaged and uninterested in education. So their children are.

AndNowItsSeven Fri 09-Sep-16 12:39:46

I am in favour, it is much fairer than selection by mortgage.
I do think that state primaries should prepar pupils for the entrance exams in school time.
I am strongly against fsm being used as a bench back for low income families given priority. It's very unfair on the working poor. It should be FSM or income from wage under circa 21k.

Ego147 Fri 09-Sep-16 12:40:05

The school is shite because the huge majority of children that go there have parents that are completely disengaged and uninterested in education

This.

And that is NOT being addressed by grammar schools. It just helps those children who would normally attend such a school where children are disengaged but who want to do well - and there's nothing wrong with wanting to help those children.

The whole education system - and the PURPOSE of school for the 21st century needs to be addressed.

Chikara Fri 09-Sep-16 12:41:12

I went to the first year of a grammar school turned comprehensive. What a shame.

A school which had had excellent results with parents and kids who respected and valued education was turned to shit overnight. Kids who couldn't give a fuck about the rules and uniforms turned the place into a jungle. The old-style teachers, some still wearing university gowns that they were proud of, were jeered at. Disruptive behaviour wrecked most lessons and parents neither backed the school up nor made sure their kids did the homework.

Bring back grammar schools. It isn't elitist - it's about kids and parents who value education and are willing to play by the rules making the most of the chance they have.

If you don't care about the rules, or homework, or they way they do things - that's fine, that's your choice. Choose a "freer", less strict school or home educate. It is just as good. BUT if you want certain things and a certain type of school for your child and your child wants that too - then you can choose it. My son had no choice and his education was wrecked.

Ego147 Fri 09-Sep-16 12:43:21

It isn't elitist - it's about kids and parents who value education and are willing to play by the rules making the most of the chance they have

What if you have a child who values education but doesn't pass the selection test to get in?

Then what?

BarbarianMum Fri 09-Sep-16 12:43:39

I'm not sure the left/right thing is that relevant papaya. Statistics show that only 15-20% of children get into grammar school. So even if everyone whose child gets into one supports them, that leaves 80-85% who don't. Surely some of those parents must be on here too. Id like to know why they support them (a significant number must in order for them to enjoy such overwhelming support).

babybythesea Fri 09-Sep-16 12:44:54

And what 'wasonthelist' said. It's not a race to the bottom - grammar schools are best because they give some kids chances they might not otherwise have, which means screw you if you didn't get it.
All kids deserve those chances and that's where energy should be focussed.
Everyone wants to get their kid the best chance they can, and I'd be going all out for grammar if that existed in my area and was the best school around. But ideologically I don't believe in them as I just don't believe some kids are more deserving of those chances than others. All schools should provide their students with fantastic opportunities.

BlackCatSleeps Fri 09-Sep-16 12:47:48

It's a confusing thing to determine I think. If I lived in a grammar school area, I would probably attempt to get my children into a grammar school and therefore appear to be in favour of them. In those areas, the grammar schools are the best schools.

However, I am not in favour of them at all and am relieved to live in a non grammar area. My children go to their local comprehensive, like all their friends do. Quite simple!

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