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ds at school

(38 Posts)
dmo Fri 02-Feb-07 10:51:07

ds is 9 yrs old and in yr 5
on monday we get a letter home from school ds has been fighting (very unlike him) and if he does it again he will be excluded from school at lunch times

has words with ds and the story was that a girl was on the floor being kicked by a boy so ds went over and pushed the boy out of the way.
boys 2 friends came over and started to push and kick ds so ds pushed and kicked back.
dinner lady saw ds pushing and sent him in (nobody else) and ds got told off and letter home.

on tuesday was parents evening so we decided to have a word with the head master about the matter, turns out headmaster knew what had happened and ds was told off because it was no his argument to get into
the boy who was kicking the girl had not even been spoken to and headmaster base said he would not be spoken to as it was ds who had been seen fighting

dh and i are so cross whats your thoughts?

tirnanog Fri 02-Feb-07 10:56:53

I'd be livid and would have to make another appointment to speak to the head.

coppertop Fri 02-Feb-07 10:57:17

I would be furious tbh. What kind of a message is that giving to your ds? Kicking is okay as long as you don't get caught doing it?

dmo Fri 02-Feb-07 11:18:00

heasmaster said if ds saw somebody getting hit/kicked he should tell somebody and not join in (fair enough)
dh said so if headmaster was out and saw somebody getting beat up he would look the other way and phone the poilce meanwhole the person being beat could be dead.
headmaster said he is just trying to teach the children no to get involved in somebody elses fight

Ali5 Fri 02-Feb-07 11:20:11

No you are not. Ok, the school want to punish kicking and fighting - you and ds would presumably accept consequences but to only single out 1?? Crazy. Speak to class teacher, ask her opinion, then go see head again. At the very least the other boys who were fighting should be dealt with in exactly the same way. Odd that the girl who was being kicked hasn't spoken out? Also, very extreme to threaten lunchtime exclusion if there is no history of bad behaviour, this should only be used as a last resort. What is the school's usual policy on dealing with bad behaviour?

tirnanog Fri 02-Feb-07 11:26:26

but surely the head should punish the bullies who were kicking the girl in the first place and who attacked your son
Well done to your son for defending the girl,he has admirable qualities obviously!

whatkatydidntdo Fri 02-Feb-07 11:31:11

thats dreadful I would see the head again and explain that you feel the letter is unjust and ask if he really wanted your DS to walk away when a pupil is on the floor being kicked???

If that is the ethos of the school I would discuss it with the governing body.

dmo Fri 02-Feb-07 17:36:11

head of govs is my sil so phoning her later

little girl comes to my house after school (i'm a childminder) so i asked her and she backed ds story up but nobody from school has spoken to her

Twiglett Fri 02-Feb-07 17:42:05

I'd be absolutely furious that no further action is being taken against the true culprits

its a very fine line between 'not getting involved' and 'sticking up for others' .. I wonder how you tread it as a school tbh

I think the head is very much mistaken in this viewpoint and policy and would be livid if my child was in trouble for fighting and the original bullies weren't

I would definitely bring it to the board of governors I believe

JillybeansNW Fri 02-Feb-07 17:50:28


My son was attacked at school - he was about 14. He was hit from behind and then kicked on the floor, at which point he was saved by other pupils. Should they have left him. He had already passed out! Not a particularly rough school, but a couple of baduns who thought he had told on them. They were excluded and the pupils who saved him suffered nothing. Quite rightly so.

FFS - there is a difference between taking somebodies fight as your own after the fact - ie retalliating on their behalf, but to save them from present harm is an admirable quality. How long would it have taken him to find a member of staff, and how many blows would they have got in in that time.

Governors, governors, governors. Parent governors and head thereof.

Rant over

oxocube Fri 02-Feb-07 18:02:15

I think I would be speaking to the parents of this little girl in your situation. I feel very angry for your ds. Whilst I appreciate the 'telling a teacher' attitude, I applaude your son for having the guts to defend this girl.

Am very sorry for Jillybean - what a horrible situation

helenhismadwife Fri 02-Feb-07 19:58:19

what a disgrace and a bad example the head is, I would write him a very snotty letter with a copy to the governors. I would say something like that I appreciate the need to stop aggressive behaviour but pointing out how unjust the treatment of your son was especially as the little sods that started it got off scott free.

You have every reason to be angry, your son sounds like a great kid helping someone in need

Ali5 Sat 03-Feb-07 11:53:25

Do it step by step, if you go straight to the governors (and I know you must be angry) you leave yourself with nowhere else but the LEA to go to if you get no joy there. You need to go back to the head and discuss, then if you get no joy, meet/discuss with governors. Twiglett - schools should treat all agressive behaviour the same, regardless of who started it and reasons for being involved. One of the biggest problems in playground trouble is "he/she started it"/"i was only sticking up for him/her" it's so difficult then to punish one and not the other for biffing someone!

TheEmeraldCityTourGuide Sat 03-Feb-07 11:56:08

I think the Headteacher behaved badly in this instance, and he is hardly likely to back down.
I would write a letter to the Head, detailing your unhappiness at this situation, and the way he handled it. I would also copy in the Chair of Governors.

edam Sat 03-Feb-07 12:03:24

I'm horrified, having been a victim of bullying at one school I attended. Yes, finding a teacher is a good thing to do, but the protagonists should be punished. Headteacher has just given them the message that they can get away with it and anyone who tries to intervene will be punished!

The LEA must have a bullying strategy (govt. orders) that the school should live up to. Bullying doesn't have to be a series of events, can be a one-off.

I'd go with writing to HT and copying to governors, referring to their discipline policy. Because I bet it doesn't say 'hitting is OK as long as the teacher doesn't see you do it'.

Judy1234 Sat 03-Feb-07 12:11:42

Keep the headmaster on side as much as possible and don't widen the dispute so other people are involved like governors because then the head looks bad and that affects his self esteem and he has to justify his position but just send a nice letter in saying you know how hard it it often to tell who is at fault when a fight is viewed but in this case it was clearly not your son's fault and you assume the incident or at least his version of events can go on his record.

TheEmeraldCityTourGuide Sat 03-Feb-07 12:14:06

It is unacceptable for the headmaster to not deal effectively with an aggressive physical situation because "it was not his argument to get into".
It is his responsibility to deal fairly with all his pupils. If he is not doing this, then the fact needs to be highlighted to the governors, IMO.

Catbabymummy Sat 03-Feb-07 12:32:46

Unbelievable. And we wonder why bullying goes on in our schools... absolutely disgusting. Good luck with your complaint to the Head, don't let him get away with this.

DimpledThighs Sat 03-Feb-07 12:48:59

IMO opinion your son was being a good citizen and should be applauded not punished - what does this set up for the future? Kepp your head down and say nothing?

If it was me I would write to the head of govenrors (your SIL) asking them to discuss it at the next meeting with regard to the BM policy and also copy a letter to the head.

Also (because I am that kind of person) I would tell the other mothers I knew about what had happened. IMO people need to know more about what goes on at school and how it is dealt with. I am sure other parents will feel like you and a lot of us on here.

wheresthehamster Sat 03-Feb-07 13:07:24

Sorry, am I missing something here, your ds was punished for DEFENDING himself?

Did the dinner lady ask for the full story?

Did she ask the girl what happened?

What sort of head is it that doesn't get all the participants together and get to the bottom of it?

Wrong messages being sent to all parties here.

Judy1234 Sat 03-Feb-07 13:18:31

It's awful. These miscarriage of justice things probably happen every single day a school is open. It is very hard as any teachers on here will say to work out who is right and who is wrong. If it is not a serious consequence I just tell the children life is unfair and ignore it but we have never had anything serious, just things that put them out and make them cross.

dmo Sat 03-Feb-07 19:22:52

still very cross
i think most of you feel as i do (thank you for your replys and support)
we were in the heasmasters office till nearly 7pm on tuesday night and it just kept going round in circles the headmasters veiw was indeed put your head down and dont get involved
if ds wasnt in yr5 i might have moved him feel very upset with the veiw of the school

JillybeansNW Sat 03-Feb-07 22:40:00

HM is wrong wrong wrong.
Has he said that he will at least investigate and punish the others? Oh, and what did your SIL say?

Elasticwoman Sat 03-Feb-07 22:46:57

Have you spoken to the parents of the little girl that your ds saved?

Ali5 Sun 04-Feb-07 08:49:53

The situation hasn't been resolved. You did the right thing in discussing it with the head because you now have a lot of 'ammo' to go to the governors with. Did he at least withdraw any of the consequences for your ds? Be wary of broadening the dispute, the more people that get involved the harder it can be to sort out - keep it simple, know what you want done and ask for it from the people that can do something about it (ie the governors/lea). Good luck.

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