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To think the ancient Egyptians were black

(85 Posts)
JonathanDunn Fri 19-Aug-16 22:56:14

The last thread was removed because of an inflammatory title. So I changed the title of this thread.

But I don't the media credits African people, or white actors playing Egyptians.

Palomb Fri 19-Aug-16 22:56:54

How do you know?

JonathanDunn Fri 19-Aug-16 22:57:13

JonathanDunn Fri 19-Aug-16 22:58:11

Dan tests show cleo patras mother was sub Saharan African. Melanine test and features of ancient statues.

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp Fri 19-Aug-16 22:58:34

Who cares..... Where are the Egyptian films anyway? Or should we go back and re make the Egyptian films using actors with the correct shade of skin colour..... Even if the actual actor has no connection to Egyptian heritage at all?? hmm

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 19-Aug-16 22:59:57

Isn't 'ancient Egypt' covering quite a long period? Some of the rulers weren't originally ethnically African, so I guess they might be represented as white. I think some of the Ptolemy dynasty were reputed to be ginger.

I agree, though, that it's annoying when people don't think about race issues.

JonathanDunn Fri 19-Aug-16 23:00:43

It does matter because the media likes to discredit black people and make black people and show black people as if we invented nothing / had no civilisation

JonathanDunn Fri 19-Aug-16 23:01:58

The vast majority of ancient Egyptians would have been black Saharan African

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 19-Aug-16 23:02:41

YY, I agree, it matters.

(Still think you're generalising too much - it's like saying 'medieval British people were white').

Netflixandchill Fri 19-Aug-16 23:02:48

Remember that Louis Theroux documentary on black nationalists where one of them said Shakespeare was black? And Henry the 8th?

Didn't care then either

DPotter Fri 19-Aug-16 23:03:55

There were Nubian in the south of Egypt who were more African and the Egyptian in the north were more Arabic. The Ptolemys were Greek. and they were a sea faring culture as well so got around the Med, so plenty of opportunity for some cultural diversification !

Thattimeofyearagain Fri 19-Aug-16 23:04:00

Interesting, it does make sense. Problem is that when the tombs were ravaged discovered by Howard Carter et al they were Anglicised as was the norm of the time.

QueenoftheAndals Fri 19-Aug-16 23:04:01

Cleopatra was a Ptolemy and the Ptolemies were Greek. They were also notorious for inbreeding so it's more likely than not that her mother was one of them.

PaulAnkaTheDog Fri 19-Aug-16 23:05:22

It's not really a race issue though, is it? Your last thread was clearly looking for a fight (yes I saw it). It's all hypotheses and tbh a lot of films set in ancient Egypt were filmed before there was any debate on the subject of ancient Egyptians ethnicity.

MeMySonandl Fri 19-Aug-16 23:05:39

I have a friend that was very much into archaeology and anthropology, he used to explain to the students how the home sapiens took over the Neanderthals, I was quite shocked to learn that the Homo Sapiens was originally black while the Neanderthals white.

It is obvious, wears always told the Homo sapiens came from Africa, but then somehow the penny never dropped.

Thattimeofyearagain Fri 19-Aug-16 23:06:54

Africa was the cradle of life.

totalrecall1 Fri 19-Aug-16 23:06:57

The Nubians were black in the south, but these were not the Royals. They were more Arabic looking

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 19-Aug-16 23:08:09

YANBU, IIRC some pharaohs were Nubian or Kush, which is Sudanese.

JonathanDunn Fri 19-Aug-16 23:10:01

It is a race issue though because white people are trying to take away black peoples history.

Oh and it's obvious William Shakespeare and Henry the 8th were black grin

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 19-Aug-16 23:14:06

I think it's a race issue, but that it's not just about historical accuracy, it's about how films can contribute to ongoing perceptions.

In the same way, I'm glad David Oyelowo's been in some Shakespeare history plays, acting characters who we know in real life were definitely white - because as a black man, part of what he's doing there is showing that Shakespeare and British history can be bigger than just historical accuracy.

quencher Fri 19-Aug-16 23:15:19

The Argument with Egypt usually comes down to who built the pyramid.

When people mention red-hair or ginger as some of the rulers.

What I would like to ask is what do they mean exactly?

A11TheSmallTh1ngs Fri 19-Aug-16 23:25:47

Lots of African Americans are obsessed with this idea that Egyptians were black despite it having very little to do with most African American heritage (which comes primarily from West Africa).

I'm copying a comment from reddit which explains it best: It is basically because American schools history is very western civilization centric and Egypt is the only African civilization ever mentioned. Throughout the rest of history lessons black people are only mentioned as those being colonized, those being enslaved, those being oppressed or fighting oppression and a couple tidbits about black inventors. Egypt is the only African civilization discussed with the level of respect as European civilizations like ancient Greece. It's a very attractive thing to cling to, to identify strongly with the one historical example of people similar to how you look being royalty, conquerors, and equal to Europeans especially when you are being treated poorly for how you look. I think the idea of them being black started at a time when most black people were unable to have enough education or world travels to know African doesn't always equal black and in those times identifying with a strong historical and noble people was very appealing as you were actively being oppressed. The concept was probably passed down orally to today when people have access to knowing Egyptians are not black Africans.

An in-depth discussion of this issue is actually available at wiki

I don't think we need to take on this kind of nonsense in the UK. Let's leave this pseudo history to the American education system.

Just5minswithDacre Fri 19-Aug-16 23:29:00

The Abyssinians were a hugely important and successful ancient civilisation. Why do we never hear about them?

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 19-Aug-16 23:29:41

That's kinda patronising though, isn't it?

What's wrong with it being 'attractive' to think that people who looked like you might have been powerful? I would say that's quite a healthy thing to seek out.

A11TheSmallTh1ngs Fri 19-Aug-16 23:30:12

Oh and people who believe this theory are called Hoteps. Google "Hoteps" and you'll understand this mentality. They are usually men and very into conspiracy theories and female subjugation.

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