Summer born boy

[summertimeover]

Ok so I am probably being unreasonable... But aggagagagahaghhh.

Just met up with a friend who has a September born DD. I have a v late Summer born DS. They have both just completed their first year in reception. My friend just said "that age and sex are irrelevant when discussing childrens' progress in the first few years at school"

I was a bit... thinking my little boy hates colouring and is 10 months younger than your daughter... He is obviously not going to be doing as much/as well. She seems to think they have both been in school for the same length of time, so to blame age is an excuse...

[Dbsparkles]

What has liking colouring got to do with it?

[Oly5]

She's talking nonsense. It's well known that summer born kids find primary harder

[Dbsparkles]

For what it's worth my June born boy has just finished reception with exceeding expectations in maths and reading so you probably are being unreasonable.

[NeedACleverNN]

[Pootles2010]

Both DS's teachers have said 'well he's a summer born boy' when discussing his (lack of) progress, reading issues etc. It really does seem to make a difference - not to all of them granted, some will fly regardless, but it does seem to have a bearing. Think how much they come on in 6 months, let alone a year - of course a September baby will be further on than a July one!

Certainly the summer thing anyway, not sure on the girl/boy thing.

[summertimeover]

The reference to colouring was that he doesn't like sitting down and doing focused neat work.

Sparkles - he is also exceeding for reading and maths. He is just isn't exceeding all areas, which think is fine. Her daughter is, and she thinks age is irrelevant. Had my DS been born 13 days later he would only been starting school this year!

[summertimeover]

I agree Pootles - I think it makes a difference, but am prepared to be told I am being PFB.

[HeCantBeSerious]

My DD is October born. One of her best friends (from our baby group) is August born. There's 8 weeks between them in age. DD has just finished R, her friend Y1. The difference in expectations is AMAZING. Of course age makes a difference!

[KeepSmiling83]

I think you can notice the difference in the first few years of school actually. I am a primary school teacher and DD1 has a July birthday. Most of her class have birthdays before Christmas and she is one of three who has a summer birthday. When she started school she still seemed very little and I think found social situations a bit more challenging particularly as some of the older girls were talking about things/programmes that she had no interest in.

I teach in the juniors and I would say by that stage it is harder to tell who has summer/winter birthdays but in the infants it is definitely more noticeable.

[summertimeover]

Thanks keepSmiling - as a primary school teacher you are an expert on this so will simply smile the next time my friend says it, and then move the conversation on. :-)

[Noonesfool]

Loads of research suggests it makes a big difference.

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15527145 ]]

[MargaretCavendish]

She is obviously being ridiculous. Her child is nearly 20% older than yours - of course that's likely to make a difference!

I was a summer baby and my mum has said that I found the first year of school hard, mostly socially. She thinks it was made worse by the fact that I was (and still am) tall, so there wasn't that visible difference, but of course I was in some ways less advanced than children nearly a full year older.

[MrsKoala]

She has it the wrong way round. It makes a huge difference at this age then the gap closes as they get older. Think of what percentage 10 months of someones life and learning is to them if they are is 4 and then what it is to a 15 year old.

I have 2 boys, one was born first week in sept (but was due Aug) and second was born in August (but was due in Sept). They are almost 2 years to the day apart but will be 1 year apart in school. If ds1 was born when due he would be starting school this year, but instead he has a whole extra year to learn and then be starting, it's obvious in that year he is going to develop loads. I am so glad he was late as he would never have coped with school this Sept.

Poor DS2 will be the youngest tho, so he will have had one year less learning than ds1 - i really wish he had come 3 days later :(

[Dbsparkles]

To be less argumentative, yes of course it does generally make a difference. I don't think the colouring thing is an issue though. In my son's school you really can tell the difference in the older and younger ones, in the way they act and look.

[DoinItFine]

Does your friend imagine that children don't develop much between 4 and 5?

You're talking about the best part of a year's difference in maturity, social skills, hand-eye co-ordination, practice at getting dressed, wiping own bum.

It's huge.

When my eldest started school they split the two classes according to age.

It worked really well for her because she was right in the middle of the younger class.

The teacher that had them (also head of juniors) swore never again, because she had all the smallest children who needed the most help and supervision. The other teacher had a great time with all the 5 year olds.

Your friend does not sound clever.

[Jackiebrambles]

Of course it makes a difference.

Also, and I'll await my flaming, in my personal experience girls are more likely to enjoy sitting quietly and colouring than boys too. Certainly at age 4 anyway.

[JigglypuffsCaptor]

I think of this as sort of a bell curve, most summer babies will sit in the centre and will understandably be behind peers slightly as they are younger, and you will get the odd to the edge of the curve who excell or really struggle.

DS is 2 this weekend, he seems to be holding his own with his peers at nursery but my friends baby is 2 the following weekend and she is a little bit behind her age peer group, but both are normal so meh makes no difference

[felineways]

As an early years teacher in my experience being summer born does have a sizeable impact for a lot of children. Also a lot of learning styles favour children who excel at sill focussed tasks ( which is often but not always girls).

It sounds like a strained conversation and makes me wonder about the full context. Did you maybe down play her daughters achievements a little too much by pionting out the age difference? Causing her to respond unkindly?

On the other hand I find sometimes x is so advanced boasts are only meant to be answered with gushing.

The does seem to be a lot of competitive parents in reception around everything (looking on from the outside as teacher).

[Glassofwineneeded]

It makes a difference in these early infant years but by the time they are in the juniors they will have had the same amount of schooling and caught up.

[Bomb]

Of course a year (or nearly a year) makes a huge difference. So YANBU in yhat respect, however you are being VERY unreasonable having friends who talk crap and compare the abilities of little kids. You need new friends who never discuss how well their little darlings are doing.

How well other kids are doing or not doing is incredibly boring.

[HeCantBeSerious]

I'm an Autumn baby and my sibling was a summer born baby. You couldn't get a cigarette paper between our academic achievements.

[budgiegirl]

For what it's worth my June born boy has just finished reception with exceeding expectations in maths and reading so you probably are being unreasonable

You can't base it on one child though. Of course the 'average' just 4 year old will be substantially behind in development than the 'average' nearly 5 year old. A year at that age makes a huge difference.

There is some evidence to suggest that this gap continues throughout the school years, even as far as GCSE results. Certainly this gap was recognised when my children sat their 11+, with results being weighted so that summer born children did not have to score as highly to pass as September children.

The problem, I think, can be exacerbated by the fact that in the early years, children who are more advanced (often the older ones) are pushed/given extension work while the younger ones tackle the basics. This can widen the gap for a while. I don't think it's any co-incidence that the children at the 'top table' even in Y6 are often predominantly those who have birthdays in the first part of the year.

[dangermouseisace]

Yanbu. I've got a postgrad in education psychology. The greatest predictor of how well kids did in some SAT test can't remember which one, was sex followed by month born. Ie female and sept born- just about guaranteed to reach the expected level, summer born boy, more likely to not reach target than attain it. Especially in the early years this is just so clear, teachers always recognise it. I have a summer born boy, who is going for the grammar school test in Sept and apparently they get extra points/allowances for being summer born...if this is at 10/11 differences are even more pronounced at 4/5. My boy does well academically but there are just so many glaringly obvious differences between him and his autumn born classmates...they've started along the puberty course and he's still definitely not is the most striking one at present.

[nokidsyetnet]

I am an assessment coordinator and teacher at a primary school we see a significant difference between the autumn and summer born children all the way until 11 both in the classroom and in data. Of course some summer born children cope very well ( I am summer born and was always academically ahead of peers) but ignoring the gap that can occur would mean not offering those children who don't cope the additional support they might need.