to say the EU are telling us they have us by the balls in tonight's announcement.

[LuluJakey1]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300
BBC News Tonight

'Speaking on the eve of the referendum, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK would not get a better deal than the one already negotiated by Prime Minister David Cameron.

Leave supporter Boris Johnson the former mayor of London said the remarks showed Mr Cameron's belief that the UK could achieve further reform to immigration rules from within the EU were a "sham, snare and a delusion".

Mr Juncker made it clear there would be no scope for further negotiations over better terms to try to keep the UK on board.
"I have to add that the British policymakers and the British voters have to know there will be no kind of any renegotiation," he told reporters after talks with new Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern.
"We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give.
"So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned. Out is out.'

Pretty clear then. Whatever rubbish deal we have now we are stuck with. They will continue to dictate to us on trade deals, immigration and the European Union definition of Human Rights.

They have us by the balls and intend to squeeze them!

[mynamesnotMa]

The Human and Employment Rights suit me just fine thanks.
We sure as hell won't be able to negotiate a better deal if we are out.

[mumtomaxwell]

As pp says - we are MUCH better off staying in. If we leave we will just be a tiny little island trying to be a big superpower in a world that just isn't like that anymore.

And what's wrong with EU Human Rights legislation - it's what secures all our domestic equality legislation!! I like knowing we have an extra layer to our route of redress.

[Doyoufeelluckypunk]

Absolutely right mynamesnotma .

Let's not forget the added benefit of maternity rights, equal pay etc

As women we are in a better place than we were without the EU!

[LuluJakey1]

Really?
'For the first time The Sunday Telegraph can disclose how scores of people the Government wanted to remove from the country have been able to stay by claiming that they had a “family life” here under Article Eight of the European Convention of Human Rights.
A total of 102 people defeated the Home Secretary in the courts in 2010 on family rights grounds, including violent criminals and illegal immigrants who had no other right to be in the country.
None claimed that they would be in danger of torture or abuse if they were sent home.
It can also be disclosed that one foreign criminal who used Article Eight was a violent thug and drug dealer who beat his girlfriend and failed to pay child maintenance – but was still allowed to stay in a ruling made by three senior judges. Last night the figures fuelled the row over the use of the European Convention, which was passed into British law by the previous Labour government, and particularly Article Eight – the “right to private and family life”. Dominic Raab, the Conservative MP who obtained the figures, said: “Before the Human Rights Act, no criminal had ever claimed a right to family life to frustrate a deportation order in this country.'

And we are stuck with this kind of ruling!

[RitchyBestingFace]

OP, the Human Rights Act has nothing to do with EU - it's ECHR and non-EU countries sign it.

I thought everyone knew this by now.

[RitchyBestingFace]

If a court ruled 'illegal' immigrants have a right to be here, then they're not illegal are they?

[IamSlavetotheEU]

The Human and Employment Rights suit me just fine thanks

I am alright jack mentality?

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

"Dave" said we are better of in a reformed Europe... But he failed to get any significant reform of Europe. All he achieved was tinkering at the edges.

Junkers has made clear there will be no reform.... By Dave's argument we are not better off out. I am inclined to agree with his argument.

[Roonerspism]

The U.K. offers enhanced maternity pay over the minimum required by the EU. Just sayin'...

Anyway, I'm no fan of the EU, least of all Juncker, but at least he is making it plain!

Well and truly squashes the Remain argument to reform from within the EU

[GoudyStout]

IamSlave Well, that rather depends on whether you want the right to not be tortured, or to have a fair trial, or not to be a slave, or to have freedom of expression, or not to be discriminated against because of race or sex or religion.

Are you saying you don't want those rights?

[wasonthelist]

Employment Rights suit me just fine thanks

The U.K. offers enhanced maternity pay over the minimum required by the EU. Just sayin'...

Not only that, but we offer many other employment rights that trump the minimal provisions offered by the EU. The EU really has done almost nothing for workers rights - why do you think all the workers in France were on strike recently? Because the EU is taking care of their rights? It is a neo-liberal right wing organisation. The Euro Plus pact compels member states to reduce labour costs - how do you think they will do that? Not by taking care of ordinary workers. Ask why Goldman Sachs are so pro? Do you think they give a fuck for workers rights?

[mynamesnotMa]

You know absolututely nothing about my mentality or that of people who might value such things.

[LuluJakey1]

I am happy with all of those rights and many others that we benefit from and that are fair and just- however not the right of illegal immigrants who are rapists, child rapists and murderers to remain in this country and for us to have to pay for them. They should be deported and we should not be dictated to on this.

[wasonthelist]

Well, that rather depends on whether you want the right to not be tortured, or to have a fair trial, or not to be a slave, or to have freedom of expression, or not to be discriminated against because of race or sex or religion.

You are mixing up ECHR (signed by Churchill in the 1950s) with the EU - we don't need to be in the EU to marination Human Rights - we were founder members of the ECHR and will remain even if we leave the EU.

The EU doesn't care about workers rights.

[SanityClause]

The European Court of Human Rights is not an EU organisation.

Even if we vote to leave the EU, we will still be bound by it.

Incidentally, the European Convention of Human Rights was mostly drawn up by British lawyers after the Second World War to protect freedoms of all Europeans, after the atrocities that had been experienced by so many.

[GoudyStout]

why do you think all the workers in France were on strike recently?

Because they like having a 35 hour week?

[SanityClause]

We were already signed up to the ECHR in 1950s. The HRA, which was passed in 1998, actually increased our sovereignty, because it enabled UK courts to rule on the ECHR, rather than always reverting to Strasbourg.

Once again, if we vote out of the EU, we will still be signed up to the ECHR.

[JoJoSM2]

Roonerspism, the UK has terrible maternity pay compared to everywhere else in the EU... In other EU countries you can count on up to a year on 100% + heavily subsidized childcare that barely makes a dent even in the budgets of the lowest earners...

[GoudyStout]

wasonthelist I'm not mixing up anything - OP specifically referred to the EHCR.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

But if was obvious, wasn't it? Did anyone seriously believe out isn't out? If so they were unbelievably deluded.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

I'm very happy with being part of the European Human Rights Convention. After all, we brought it about and we wrote it.

[NewStickers]

The remain arguments for reform within the EU relate to reform with the EU, as a member of it, as opposed to special status and opt outs in spite of the EU, which is what Cameron has negotiated and what the leave campaign are saying we can do if we vote out as a negotiation strategy.

[Marmitelover55]

IN for me.

[wasonthelist]

Did anyone seriously believe out isn't out? If so they were unbelievably deluded.

If we vote out, all bets are off. Remainers and the EU like to pretend otherwise and talk down to people calling them patronising things like deluded - but if it suits the EU and our politicians to engage in further negotiations, they will.

[LondonKiwiMummy]

Actually, the EU has enhanced a lot of workers rights (for example, those of agency workers) over and above UK law.
www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf

The UK already has the power to block EU nationals that it considers a risk from the UK, and regularly exercises the power.
fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-deporting-eu-immigrants/

Studies overwhelmingly show EU migrants bring a greater benefit to the UK (as they are young, they work and they don't place pressure on local services as much as the elderly for example).

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html

Finally, as much as everyone thinks ol' Dave really stuffed it up with his negotiation (and trust me - i am not a fan of ANY Tory) he did get some concessions over and above concessions core EU members don't get like having the right to trade trillions in EUR when we don't have the EUR as our currency - and yes maybe you don't care about it, but the 1000s of families that depend on those jobs not moving to Frankfurt do). Juncker was saying he can't do any more above the special deal we already have.

So do read the FACTS and vote! Inform yourself properly, not digest Boris and Farage soundbites.